The parenthetical includes only the input accessories, not the audiometer itself. Some current model audiometers are upgradeable for ACT, but there are many (most?) in the field that are not current models.
You just have to select it and enter in any arbitrary value like 5.2 for example, and it’ll show up. And you can edit it to any number within 1 decimal point of accuracy.
I entered a value, successively 12.4, 5.2, 12, but no joy.
…and then I clicked the “?” icon at the top right, and based on that I clicked the “Save” button at the lower right, and then… joy!
1 Like
Or maybe instead of requiring it to be loaded on and work with an existing and compatible audiometer, they could have just designed it as a stand-alone box that does nothing but ACT testing and measurement. Basically a stripped down version of a full blown audiometer that can be purchased for cheap as a stand-alone. And the licensing cost is built into the price of this stand-alone device.
1 Like
Sorry, this is the consumer electronics department. The audiology equipment department is down the hall.
Haha, yeah. Cheap by audiology equipment standard is probably at least $5K and up. But at least you don’t have to cough up $20K for a new compatible audiometer. But maybe it needs the full audiometer functionality so it can’t really be made stand-alone at a more affordable price anyway. Just wishful thinking on my part, I guess…
I originally thought like you that ACT data would probably just drive the parameters inside of the MoreSound Intelligence window, like Neural Noise Suppression max values (for Easy and Difficult), and maybe help select the best combination of the Environment Classifier in terms of which of the 5 environments would be grouped into Easy and which grouped into Difficult.
But I heard from a curious user (a savvy DIY user) who tried to feed Genie 2 two different ACT values, one being -4 (the lowest value meaning very little help needed with Contrast Loss Severity), and the other being 16 (the highest value meaning the most help is needed with Contrast Loss Severity). What they reported back is that they see the gain curves (found in Fine Tuning) show different numbers for those 2 cases as well.
This is significant because apparently the ACT data is not just only driving the noise-related parameters’ settings in MoreSound Intelligence, but the ACT data seems to be driving what the gain data on the gain curves should look like as well.
1 Like
I don’t think I’d pay more than $200 for it. Maybe a bit more if I had a higher population of non English speakers. But I have other tools to serve the same function.
1 Like
I can see how this would work: you’d drive up speech relevant octaves’ gain more for people who were struggling to hear distinct speech in noise. Potential downside would be that acceptance adjustment would be harder and listening/processing fatigue might be an issue.
It’s what your experienced hearing professional should be doing anyway. I like getting into the sliders and having a play. You just have to be a bit careful about the degree of changes especially with the MPO/instability/distortion near the limit.
There’s a secondary issue, which you really have to consider; the amount/proportion of the loss that sits around 70dB+ - it’s dead OHC territory, no matter how much extra welly or sharpness you apply to the signal, the risk is that you’ll overstimulate adjacent portions of the cochlear and ruin your ‘cleaned-up’ sound through masking spread.
1 Like
Thanks for this input, @Um_bongo . Sounds like it could be a double-edged sword. I guess if one is leery about having ACT driving changes to the gains, but still wants to know how it would drive the noise-related parameters in the MoreSound Intelligence page, one can just capture how it would set up the parameters in the MoreSound Intelligence page, then turn off the ACT data to disable the changes to the gains, and manually set up the MoreSound Intelligence parameters the same way as how they were captured.
Another thought is that the data derived from the ACT test that gets fed input Genie 2 doesn’t have to be the final data set in stone. It can be a good starting point. If one feels like they’re still not getting enough help, they can kick up this value incrementally until they’re happy with the help. If they feel like they’re getting too much help (like the issue with fatigue due to sharper gains or overstimulation), they can also “ease up” a bit on the ACT value.
Since most DIYer will have 2024.1 Genie updated and have access to ACT right now.
Has anyone tried ACT yet? Whether it’s generating random numbers and trying them out, or actual ACT scores. I’m curious to know if there’s any difference.
I still good without ACT. Just want to hear from you guys.
The first screenshot below is what I get if I set ACT to -4 (the smallest value → need the least help). The second screenshot below is what I get if I set ACT to 16 (the highest value → need the most help).
Interestingly, Easy Neural Noise Suppression is only set to 2 (not 4 or 6 dB) even when I need the most help. And Difficult NNS is only set to 10 for me even when I need the most help. It still doesn’t think that I need 12 dB max suppression. I guess my audiogram must have also been taken into consideration because it’s not straightforward mapping like 6 dB for Normal Contrast Loss and 8 dB for Mild Contrast Loss and 10 dB for Moderate Contrast Loss and 12 dB for Severe Contrast Loss.
On the other hand, with ACT of -4 for the least help needed, I still have 8 dB NNS (but not 6) for Difficult environment.
So it’s very apparent that it’s not simple and straightforward mapping of the 4 Contrast Loss groupings into the corresponding 4 Neural Noise Suppression values. Apparently your audiogram probably is also taken into consideration as well.
The Environmental Classifier still say that Complex and Very Complex environments are Difficult environments for me, even if my ACT value of -4 indicates that I need the least help.
Also as reported earlier, another DIY person also notice the gain values changing and are different for the 2 extreme -4 and 16 ACT values. So apparently ACT values drive the gain curves as well.
1 Like
This is where I’ve been playing with the Moresound settings for years. It’s the Oticon SW guys quizzing linked copies of Genie or screening returns to see which settings are being adjusted/tuned by audiologists and which aren’t.
They probably identified fairly early on that people weren’t adjusting the Moresound tuning: implementation of ACT has followed.
I’d go one further, I’d suggest that the reason people aren’t tweaking it is because the page/effect on the output is badly expressed and unnecessarily wordy. Call it something simpler, use easier terms, make the direction of adjustment more obvious.
I might be wrong, but it reads like a design that’s been put together by engineers whose first language isn’t English, and it doesn’t make explicitly clear what the aids are going to do.
Edit: Also I sit with the PC screen visible to the client on my right. Not across a desk, the client needs to look at this while you make changes so they understand how/where the aid is working harder and where they might struggle more anyway.
5 Likes
I tried it and got a message that ACT is incompatible with my More 1. Did I do something wrong?
Hmm… With ACT -4, I get 3 Easy and 2 Difficult situations, and NRR 0 and 8 dB respectively; with ACT 16, I get 0 Easy and 5 Difficult situations, NRR 4 and 12 dB.
Edit: … and here are my right side 16-band VAC+ insertion gain curves; the first/top one is ACT=-4:
ACT is compatible with Real and above
2 Likes
Of course, planned obsolescence is a thing. Oh, sorry, sometimes my cynicism gets the best of me 
1 Like
That’s quite peculiar, even though Real and More use the same platform, just that Real has the letter “R” appended to it. Technically More should be compatible. If they allowed it via firmware update or something.
2 Likes
Don’t worry, you won’t miss anything. If you are DIY and keep adjusting MoreSoundIntelligence feature to suits your hearing loss profile.
I have access to ACT but I don’t use it now because I am good with current setup. Just curious to see what it will benefits me.