OPN questions for a loyal Oticon buyer

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hearing-aids

#163

So far no, I haven’t heard anything from the new molds and my guys are usually the last to know about it :stuck_out_tongue: It might take some weeks for them to be aware of it.

there’s 2 noise filter and a speech clarity option, that you can increase in a second programm for noisy situation, I also have 1 front focus programm, which is nice in conference or a schooling environment.

other than that “programms” aren’t so typical for the OPN, there’s just a tinitus feature.

also check your compression, that might cause alot of unclarity if anything above 2.0 for me.


#164

I sent my left clear hard acrylic mold back to Oticon for a redo because it didn’t seem to sit right and I felt more occlusion on it than the right one. I heard about this Flex mold option after I sent it in, and I asked my audi about it. She just said it was too late for get the Flex mold for the redo, but if this second time doesn’t work, she’ll ask about it next if we have to go the third round.

You don’t need your audi to pair your aids with your Android phone. Just install the ON app on your Android phone and open it and it’ll automatically find it and connect it as long as you have Bluetooth turned on. No pairing necessary.

As for Speech in Noise, I wouldn’t sweat too much about having it (or not). If you set your default program to have maximum noise reduction in complex environment (-9dB) and simple environment (-3dB) and your OpenSound transition to High help, that’s basically what Speech in Noise is. That’s what I have in my default program anyway because I don’t see why I would want less noise reduction no matter which environment I’m in. Remember that the OPN noise reduction technique is not directional sound blocking, but it’s cleaning up the noise around the speech in real time, so if there’s no noise, there’s nothing to clean around the speech anyway, and you’re not really block out any sound by having it set too high. So I don’t see why I wouldn’t want to have it on all the times. The fact that you said “audio tends to be clearer particularly in noisy environments” is an indication that the noise reduction is helping you. If you set it to max noise reduction in both simple and complex environment, it’ll ensure that you have the most clear speech you can get.

I’m surprised that your audi turned on Speech Rescue for you. That’s because your loss is about the same at the highs and the mids and lows anyway. So moving the high sounds into lower frequencies is not going to help you much anyway. I woud rather not use Speech Rescue if I had your hearing loss because it can cause more confusion than help with anything because now you have the same sounds in more frequency areas than there should be. Just for that alone, I’d give your audi a minus for not using his head to think when Speech Rescue is useful and when it’s not.


#165

Apologies for the delayed reply due to the long weekend. I categorized below for readability

FLEX MOLDS

@Gery_R thanks for the heads up. Yes it looks like Flex Molds are very new and Oticon literature is not yet up to date on that, and my audiologist remains clueless. I hope to discern on whether these Flex Molds are useful for our level of hearing loss or if our acryllics are the best available.

PROGRAMMING
@Volusiano Thanks for sharing the useful tips on noise reduction. The app setup from my Android to OPN is very straightforward (agree that audiologist intervention is not needed, but it was a nice to have).

My programming stuff (Hi-Pros, etc.) are in the mail so in the meantime I am perusing the Genie and audiology courses online to get up to speed to understand nuances like Speech Rescue. I’m sure there will be more questions afterwards.

TV ADAPTER
On an related note, I also purchased a TV Adapter 3.0 but I am unable to get sound streamed into my ear in surround sound mode. I may have to call Oticon support to troubleshoot. It could be something simple that I’m missing.

I currently have my AV Receiver hooked up to all my devices (it does not have an optical out, only optical in). From that AV Receiver, I have a single HDMI cable going to my Samsung TV that does have an optical out. My devices emit sound either through two ways: (1) when the AV Receiver serves as a HDMI “pass-through” to the TV or (2) through the surround sound system when my AV Receiver is on.

So I hooked up my TV Adapter to that TV’s optical out and was hoping to hear audio in both ways. My TV Adapter pairs with the OPNs very quickly and I am able to select the TV program through the Android app. I hear a series of beeps. In (1) “pass-through mode” I hear audio very clearly in stereo mode. However, in (2) surround sound mode, I am getting silence, which implies that the TV Adapter does not get audio that is being transmitted to the surround sound system when the AV Receiver is on. Any suggestions on how to get the TV Adapter working in surround sound mode with the AV Receiver on?


#166

First of all, you don’t need to select the TV steamer mode from your Android phone ON app. That’s just one option. Another way is to just use your hearing button to cycle through the programs.

As for why you don’t get sound when your AV receiver is in surround mode, I suspect that it’s either because your TV doesn’t send any optical data through to the TV streamer when it accepts surround data, or if it sends the surround data to the TV streamer, the streamer doesn’t know how to down convert it back to stereo.

Usually if your TV and receiver support HDMI ARC (audio return channel) you should enable the ARC and have the TV return the audio channel to the receiver. That way the receiver is the hub for all your audios, the TV audio included. Then you just hook up the analog headphone audio output of your receiver to the TV streamer analog input instead of using the TV streamer optical input. The draw back of this is that you’ll have to turn your receiver on when you use the TV streamer.

If your TV has a headphones output or RCA output you can also hook this up to the TV streamer instead. This will ensure that the surround sound will down convert to stereo for sure because there’s no guarantee that the optical data will be down converted to stereo for you or not, or if surround data will get sent to the TV optical out or not even if your TV streamer can down convert back to stereo.


#167

your TV might only be able to send out PCM through the toslink out and no dolby codec.

try to check your TV sound options maybe you can change that .


#168

Good point here. Usually the TV can be configured to send either PCM or Dolby surround or DTS. PCM is actually the stereo sound I think so if you can configure PCM there maybe you’ll have better luck.

The big unknown is that we don’t know whether the TV streamer is smart enough to down convert from Surround Dolby or DTS to PCM stereo or not. If not then you’ll need to set the TV to down convert to PCM stereo up front for you.

This talk is all about the Toslink optical connection of course. If you want to avoid all this complication, use the analog RCA connection instead. It should sound just as good. I doubt if you can tell a difference through your OPN.


#169

RCA means the TV adapter has to digitalize the signal before it is send via blu tooth, which should sound worse since there should be a loss in calrity, toslink is recommended for the adapter.

The adapter is capable of handling dolby codec, but not DTS. I think he wants dolby digital/ surround which the TV adapter can handle just fine, unless one device in his chain isn’t capable to passthrough it and instead converts dolby into pcm and sends that through.


#170

I think he said the pass through works fine for him when the receiver is off. It’s only when the receiver is on and sending surround sound to his TV that it no longer works. I’m guessing the receiver sending surround to the TV disables the pass through.

I know RCA is not as clean as Toslink but when all else fails with Toslink I don’t think the RCA option is a terrible resort. Just try both ways and decide for yourself if RCA is really as bad as you think. You may be surprised to find that it’s quite adequate as a fall back trade off if you can’t get Toslink to work for you anyway.


#171

Thanks both @Volusiano and @Gery_R for the insightful responses. Upon further look at my family’s surround sound system in scenario 2, it looks like the TV audio is disabled when the surround speakers are on! This could explain why the TV does not provide an audio signal to the TV Adapter.

So the solutions are to do one of the following. I will update my findings after my family stops me from going into airplane mode during vacation:
A Enable TV audio and sync surround sound speakers with TV audio
B Enable HDMI ARC to allow sharing of audio signals (I’ve an old Onkyo NR709 and old Samsung UN55B8000, so unsure if this new tech protocol is available)
C Fallback onto RCA signals although it may result in close to indiscernible audio quality loss

I also wonder if the volume controls can be set independently…meaning I can increase the volume of the streamed TV volume and decrease the volume of ambiance room conversation at the same time. As of now I can only modify the TV volume and mute ambiance volume rather than modify it. Moreover the ambiance volume is softened when TV audio is enabled, making it harder to hear room conversations about a game while someone scores.


#172

There is no volume control on the TV Adapter so usually the way it works is that Toslink optical output from the TV (or the RCA or headphones output from the TV) will set the loudness coming into the TV Adapter.

Usually the TV has a software option to output a FIXED volume to the Toslink out (or RCA out) so that no matter what volume you set on the TV (even down to zero), you’ll still get a fixed sound volume coming into the TV adapter. Sometimes by the Toslink output volume is already fixed by default and you don’t even need to opt for it.

Anyway, if this fixed volume coming into the TV Adapter is too soft or too loud for you then you use the OPN’s volume control to adjust it to your liking.

If it’s the TV’s headphone output that you’re connect the TV Adapter to, then that output is invariably tied to the TV’s volume control anyway.

But I guess that’s not even your question in the first place, which is about mixing the TV adapter streaming volume against the ambiance volume of the room being picked up by the mic. The answer to this question is yes in a couple of ways:

  1. If you have a connection of your OPN to the iPhone. The iPhone connection, beside enabling you to adjust the left and right volume balance independently, it’ll also let you adjust the ambiance volume picked up by the OPN mics independently of the streaming volume from the TV Adapater.

  2. But obviously option 1 is not going to work for you because you don’t have an iPhone. So the second option is to ask your audi to adjust the ambiance volume for you when you’re in TV Adapter streaming mode in Genie when you’re in their office. Obviously this is just a one time adjustment at your audi’s office so you can’t change it dynamically as you listen to streaming sound from your TV adapter. This is part of the reason I decided to abandon my Android phone and switch to an iPhone so that I can do the adjustment above in (1) more easily, amongst other benefits like direct streaming through my iPhone as well. I know many people feel strongly about sticking with their Android phone so I don’t want to start anything here. Just pointing out the options as they are.


#173

I’ll be a bit off topic with this – not having OPN. First, every time I talk about it I need an electronics dictionary; just to many acronyms. Are you trying to work with your theater sound system for the rest of the family and also use the adapter? If that the case the problem is the signal. Most devices for aids are based on stereo because it provides the best speech understanding.

My TV is set to stereo output and my soundbar has a pseudo surround option or stereo. That allowed me to use a toslink splitter to feed both. You can check the manual but I am guessing your adaptor wants a stereo feed. I think you can serve both by putting the adaptor on the RCA jacks which should provide stereo feed parallel to the toslink.

Surround for HA users is a no-no. Special effects become more prominent and that degrades speech understanding. Stereo is the preferred mode for TV for those with a loss.


#174

I am so confused about custom molds :slight_smile:
I’m a relatively new wearer of OPN1s using the 85 receivers. I have a low frequency loss with fairly normal hearing in the mid ranges and a slight loss in the upper ranges. (I can’t for the life of me figure out how to get my audiogram up on this new site) I was originally fitted with a bass dome with 1 vent. I found speech louder with the initial programming given to me by the audi but just as garbled as ever. Recently I’ve been trying power domes after telling the audi that I noticed a marked improvement in speech recognition when I put my fingers in my ears. Apparently I have small canals so the 8mm domes are a struggle to both get in my ears and are fairly uncomfortable once in there. Also tons of occlusion, which is to be expected. The 6mm power domes are an improvement over the vented domes both in comfort and speech but still not great. I’m thinking about asking my audi for custom molds. I’ve had hard plastic molds once before and found them very uncomfortable so am leery of trying them again, particularly since I will be paying for these out of pocket. Are Flex Molds the same as VarioTherm? If not, what’s the difference? Oticon also lists something called “hard with soft canal” here: https://www.oticon.com/~/media/Oticon%20US/main/Download%20Center/VA%20Resources/1550002218%20RITE%20%20BTE%20Earmold%20Styles.pdf
Is that yet something entirely different?
I want to go into the audi’s office knowing what my options are, as I don’t want to blindly follow her recommendations. She originally told me that bass domes would always be my best option and that obviously wasn’t the case. Sometimes I feel like I have to do so much research - research that I thought I was paying the audi to do! Maybe I should just give up and learn how to program them myself…


#175

Try this thread.


#176

@pvc and @RobinH We are planning to display the audiograms by the end of this week on the popup cards that come up when you click on a user avatar (like pvc’s cameraman). So, enter your audiogram at any time using the method pvc suggested, and we’ll display it soon.


#177

I enabled the TV audio during surround sound mode and the TV Adapter streams beautifully. Also, if I disable passthrough, I see an option for ARC. Thanks for all the suggestions and I am able to enjoy the US open tennis sounds beautifully

Next steps
I am eagerly awaiting my next follow-up appointment in a week to improve upon its programming by adding a program with maximum noise reduction, speech in Noise, traditional beam forming program in edge cases, and music. Anything else that needs to be added?

Hopefully I’ll have an answer on Flex Mold options too

Also is there a way to disable Speech Rescue on a program by program basis? I’m unclear in why Speech Rescue is not a good fit based in my audiogram as my loss is less in lower frequencies, and I’d like to compare and contrast with it on or off by changing programs.

DIY
I’m also eagerly awaiting the programming boxes for DIY programming in case the audiologist programming is subpar


#178

Speech in Noise is already set for max noise reduction so you wouldn’t need another program for max noise reduction. Besides, you only have 4 programs so you need to pick and choose carefully. I would do the 4 following programs:

  1. The default program (leave it as is based on your preferences selection that you made the very first time your audi set it up for you (I assumed that they let you listen to some scenarios and answer their 5 questions).

  2. The default program with Speech Rescue turned on (so you can see whether it makes a difference and help in your case or not). If you want to try out Speech Rescue on your TV Adapter direct streaming sounds, however, you’d need to enable Speech Rescue in the default program because your TV Adapter would pick up whatever settings you have from your default program 1. And if you do this, have your program 2 the same as the default program without Speech Rescue now so you can do A/B comparison between programs 1 and 2 with/without Speech Rescue.

  3. Speech in Noise (you can also opt to turn on Speech Rescue here if you want).

  4. Music.

And that’s all the room you have and that’s probably all you need anyway. I would also have your audi turn on the Auto Phone option which will chime into the Auto Phone mode when you apply a magnetic speaker against your OPN. This Auto Phone mode does not take up a programming spot so you can still have the other 4 modes above plus Auto Phone.

As mentioned above, you can enable or disable Speech Rescue independently on each program. But if you select the Music program, I think the Speech Rescue program is not an option for Music.

In configuration 1 of Speech Rescue (which is the lowest of the 10 configurations), it moves the frequencies in the 4-7KHz range down to 1.5-2.5KHz range. If you take a look at your right hearing, your loss is at 80-85dB between 4-7KHz, and 80-85dB between 1.5-2.5KHz -> same level of loss in both ranges. Very similar for your left hearing, although maybe there’s a 5dB difference (worse in the higher range), but not that much different at all. So for all practical purposes, your hearing loss is really fairly flat across the board. You don’t have a ski slope loss.

That’s why I don’t think Speech Rescue would be helpful for you. But maybe by duplicating the information on the high ends to the lower ends, you may like having the same information on both ends. Some people may find more information helpful, some people may find it more confusing to them. Only you can be the judge. But as mentioned above, just have it on in one program and off in the next program and do A/B comparison to see if you like having it on or not.

Did you order the programming boxes already? Can you share what you bought and where you bought them from and the pricing?


#179

Thanks Volusiano. I will try these suggestions. Also is there a comprehensive list of programs available? Once I decide if Speech Rescue is beneficial or not, I hope to add and trial other programs into the spare slot of the four (is this the max?) available, such as Beam forming.

Also I PMed you the requested programming information.


#180

They list the following programs on one of their courses in audiologyonline.com:

Listening programs

  1. Comfort
  2. Music
  3. Speech in Noise
  4. Lecture
  5. T-coil
  6. Mic & T-coil

For the Phone Programs:

  1. Phone T-coil
  2. Phone Mic & T-coil

And yes, do save one for their directional beam forming option to see if you like it or not. I used to have it but I didn’t notice any difference at all. On top of that, it has a really noticeable floor noise level when in this mode, don’t know why, so I eventually had it disabled.


#181

Maybe a fitter will remark on speech rescue for a client with a low level loss.

I’ve heard that the lowest tones provide a degree of loudness more than understanding. Everything mentioned about moving sounds covers the higher ranges where there is needed speech understanding.

I guess it might be worth a try.


#182

Basically this; all the forms of frequency transposition/compression/rescue rely on there being a lack of HF relative to LF hearing. Otherwise all you’re doing is corrupting the frequency resolution in the lower pitches, when all you need is appropriate gain across the right channels.