Newbie Needs Help - Widex Inteo IN-9?

I have severe hearing loss due to Otoclerosis in my right ear and mild loss in my left ear. Although I am a candidate for surgery the ENT suggested that I give an aid a try first.

I’ve gone to see an Audiologist and am now trying a Widex Inteo IN-9 BTE with a full mold in my ear with severe loss. Apparently, I have to utilize the BTE with the full mold due to the severity of my loss particularly with lower frequencies.

I’m on my first day, but it seems to be working fairly well so far, and I’m sure it will improve as I get familiar with wearing an aid and adjustments are made.

I have three questions:

  1. Does this aid offer the latest technology?
  2. Are there any other aids that I should try?
  3. Any advice for adjustments to deal with boardroom meetings to limit echoing?

I look forward to your posts!

Thanks.

My audigram is:
250, L-30 R-75
500, L-35 R-85
1000, L-25 R-75
2000, L-40 R-80
3000, L-30 R-50
4000, L-30 R-45
6000, L-35 R-45
8000, L-25 R-40

they are not the latest tech. Widex have a superior instrument call MIND 440.
which is suppose to be the best instrument of their product line. If you are looking for alternative I would suggest:

  • Phonak exelia , perhaps a micropower (tinny but not wireless)
  • Oticon EPoq rite Power (this are tinny and wireless)
  • Siemens Pure or Rexton cobalt
  • GN resound Azure Not wirless
  • Unitron YUU

Thank you very much for the information. It’s easy to get lost in all the options. Maybe I’ll ask the audiologist about some of your suggestions.

Do you have any recommendations on which of these to go with? I’m in my 30’s and quite active, so it’s important that it work well in many different environments.

What has been upgraded on the Mind 440 compared to the Inteo?

Thanks Again.

I dont dispense widex, but I know the mind 440 has a new sound processor, this is widex state of the art instrument

http://sc.widex.com/Widex-COM/Products/~/media/Widex%20COM/Downloads/PDF/mind440/data%20sheets/m4_9_EN.pdf

Thanks. Maybe I will give the Mind 440 a try. The Iteo seems to work well, but it would be nice ot have soemthing to compare it to.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

:slight_smile:

hi all first post here.

I don’t believe inteo is the same as the mind aid. inteo is known for being one of the few aids, phonak nadia being another, that does frequency transposition. bignewf5 was probably prescribed the aid because bignewf5’s hearing loss is very severe in the high frequencies.

exelia by phonak is a great alternative. not a “frequency transposition” aid but probably one of the best “regular” wdrc aids on the market.

Phonak’s Audeo YES also has this feature - called SoundRecover, just as the Naida.

it is frequency compression- which is different…

Phonak had not invented anything… this was a copy of the AVR sono aids

Technically, you are correct, I suppose. I gathered, however, that Doubledown was writing about SoundRecover and the rival HA iterations of that system.

I’m not sure who said anything about Phonak inventing anything…

you are all correct. I didn’t want to get into the whole “frequency transposition” vs “frequency compression” discussion as I don’t think bignewf5 is ready for all that information. I probably should have just used the two terms but then I am sure I would have confused the hell out of bignewf5. Anyway, I believe the inteo is possibly the only aid that does true frequency transposition. All the other aids, impact avr, nadia, audeo yes, and I think there’s one other aid (another old widex or siemens product?), are just doing frequency compression.

phonak imo should really use “frequency compression” when describing their aids.

For those not in the know “frequency compression” means, I believe, that all sound waves are compressed to fit into a smaller range of frequencies. So people who can’t hear above a certain frequency will have sounds compressed below that frequency. As with any compression technologies, this will reduce the amount information being received and will hurt speech discrimination.

Impact avr compressed all sounds to fit below a defined frequency. Phonak improved on the technology by only applying frequency compression above a user defined frequency. That way all sounds below that defined frequency is untouched.

“Frequency transposition” is just when the sound wave in frequencies you can not hear in is moved to another frequency that you can hear in. the shape of the sound wave is supposed to be preserved. Also all other sound waves should remain the the same. Doing this imo makes more sense than just increasing the volume to sounds we can’t hear anyway.

didn’t know that the audeo Yes supports “frequency compression”. I went to the phonak site and saw one whole pdf just to describe this technology. how very interesting.

http://www.phonak.com/soundrecover_for_mild_to_moderate_hearing_loss.pdf

Thanks for all the comments. Apparently, my loss is actually much more severe in the lower frequencies than in the high end. Maybe I entered my audiogram data incorectly?

The audiologist suggested the Inteo, because she has had good results from this aid with previous clients who had similar type loss.

I’ve mentioned the Mind 440, and she agreed that it has an upgraded ciruit from that used in the Inteo.

As an alternative she has suggested the Oticon Epoq RITE W. I may give this a try.

no, you wrote your audiogram correctly. I just didn’t noticed it. I’ve never seen a hearing loss that was so bad in the lows and suddenly become better in the highs. I bet you don’t have much problem hearing people in noisy environments.

anyway your left ear is easy to fit but your right ear is probably almost impossible. as you’ve already figured out, your audi is throwing unusual solutions at an unusual problem. This echo in the conference room you wrote about, I speculate maybe the the slowness (it’s doing a lot) of the aid is causing the actual and real sounds to hit your ear drums at noticeably different times. or it’s artifact from the transposition of sounds.

epoq, think that’s another 15 channel aid? then again oticon was known for their sumo aid which used to be the power aid of choice. Think this is yet another creative choice for an unusual loss.

if this does not work out I suggest you try out the exelia. 20 channels may better shape sounds to your unusual loss.

or how about an adro aid. don’t think they are powerful enough but the different approach to amplification might actually help more. be sure to return the aids within the trial period the second you determine that they are not for you. http://www.americahears.com/Products32.html

You might want to give the Siemens Motion 700 P model (P for Power) a try.
It is great in a variety of environments. Particularly conferences etc.
It’s sound quality on voices may not be as good as the Widex Mind 440;
but Siemens Motion 700 Pfiltering leaves you a whole lot less tired of hearing “everything” Alot of technology in these aids.
You can get them BTE and with or without molds.

See

https://hearing.siemens.com

Pick Motion under the “New Products” row.

(to see the Full Siemens Motion Line.)
( Then click on the various “Discover the Product” items.)

or
Under “Discover the Product” select " Motion Instruments and Features".
to see the specific P model.)

I tested the Widex Minds 440 and liked them for their sound quality.
But ended up with the Siemens Motion 700s for their overall sound management and quality.

ps: Not all audiologists are familiar with the Siemens Motions since it is newer than the Pure. or they don’t do much Siemens business.
Some will say they know/prescribe Siemens… but check around.

ps2: I have a typical ski slope loss

Hopes this gives you information another option.
Good Luck
Thanks2

The Siemens Motion also has two kinds of wireless.
o The two HAs talk to one another – so you don’t have to adjust both aids
The two HAs also talk to a Remote control called the Tek.
This means you can select up to 5 programs, the volume and frequency
with the Tek. You can also use the on aid controls for Vol & Prog;
and only have to adjust one aid; then it adjusts the other.

o The Tek remote also uses a second higher battery power requirement Bluetooth communications to talk with you cell phone, TV and etc.
You can plug your Ipod etc into the Tek.

Thanks again for all the ideas. The good news is that I am actually having great results with the Inteo! My loss is unusual (sort of a reverse ski slope), but given that it is a conductive loss hearing aids seem to work. I’m going to try the Oticon Epoq as well just for comparison purposes. I also like that the Epoq is a much more inconspicious and offers built in blue tooth. We shall see if the sound quality is comparable. I’ll post my thoughts when I get it.:slight_smile:

Well, I just got the Epoq RITE Power yesterday for comparison purposes to the Inteo IN-9.

My initial reaction is that the sound quality is far superior with the Inteo compared to the Epoq. My voice sounds unnatural, loud sounds seem a little distorted, and the directional capability does not seem as good. It also seems to feedback much more easily. For example, when I was setting my Alarm system feedback occurred due to the loud beeping. I experienced none of these issues with the Inteo.

On a positive note, aesthetically the Epoq is much nicer looking and more inconspicuous. The wire and mold are much smaller, and the unit itself is about half the size of the Inteo. The bluetooth and remote options offered are nice, and seem to work well.

I’m planning on wearing this unit for a while to give myself time to adjust, but based on things so far I think the Inteo is where it’s at for me. I wish I could get the sound quality of the Inteo with the aesthetics and features of the Epoq, but I guess you can’t have it all.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

My audigram is:
250, L-30 R-75
500, L-35 R-85
1000, L-25 R-75
2000, L-40 R-80
3000, L-30 R-50
4000, L-30 R-45
6000, L-35 R-45
8000, L-25 R-40

I just want to interject … whatever Phonak did to their Audeo YES aids is fantastic. According to that document, by the way, it says they compressed the sounds and moved them into a frequency that the person can hear at … is that not transposition? At any rate, these YES IX aids have GREATLY increased my speech comprehension, which is what you appear to say it will hurt (?). Sounds from the YES are more pleasant, deeper fuller sounding than the tinny sounding Pure’s. In a noisy environment, I was able to hear and understand a friend who I could never understand previous to getting these YES. My wife, who is not hearing impaired, has trouble understanding this soft yet fast speaking neighbor and is constantly asking her to repeat herself. With the YES IX I was able to hold a conversation with this neighbor across the table in a noisy restaurant. Maybe they didn’t invent it … but they sure as hell perfected it. :smiley:

Technically with compression the sound waves are being “moved”. but that’s not an accurate description of what is happening. the circuit is just taking the frequency above a threshold and dividing the frequency by a number. But the problem with this approach is that at worst you could be creating a beeping machine. once a sound goes over a certain frequency the aid will just produce a beep. you can not interpret a beep to actual words. This is probably not how the aid performs and is just an extreme example to illustrate how compression can hurt discrimination.

whether audeo yes can apply frequency compression to the lower frequencies I do not know. can somebody with a copy of ipfg check the audeo yes or nadia settings and see if sound recover allows you to compress frequencies “below” a threshold? I believe it’s probably biased to just compress “above” a threshold.

http://www.phonak.com/fittingsoftware_download

first off, phonak made a name for themselves with their directional microphone technology a long time ago. and directional microphones is, I believe, is the only technology that has been proven to improve speech discrimination in noise.

phonak is also known for having 20 compression channels in their top of the line aids. which is far far more than all other manufacturers. and the audeo yes is a rite aid. both of these technologies do not really help with speech in noise but will go a long way in making the sounds sound good.

But before people start praising phonak for this. the directional microphone technology been around for over a decade and phonak been selling 20 channel aids for I believe the last 5 years.

I am glad you’ve found a good pair of aids. I actually agree that the audeo yes IX is the aid to beat. even over the exelia. but the sound recover technology has little to do with my support for the aid. I honestly don’t believe this technology is really helping anybody significantly.

So we got to keep things into perspective. really understand why some audi’s are prescribing certain aids and not the other. and figure out what really helps and what’s just seems to help but really does nothing at all. It makes us more informed consumers.

potentially true “frequency transposition” can revolutionize hearing aids just like directional mics did if it’s implemented well. phonak’s implementation of “frequency compression” indirectly gives credibility to “frequency transposition” as the compression technology is a poor man’s version of the transposition technology. I bet transposition requires too much processing power to implement. if we keep writing about it and critiquing it, it would give them an incentive to pour in the big bucks to push for the next big milestone in the phonak product line. enough with the bluetooth/open/rite sugar coating crap we need technologies that will actually help with speech discrimination.

So, does anyone have thoughts on my experience with the Inteo and the Epoq (see post above)? Has anyone else here had experiences with these aids?

I’m not sure if my issues with the Epoq are the aid or the adjustments. Things seem to get distorted when people speak lound, or when in an noisy environment. Kind of tinny sounding. Like a speaker that doesn’t quite work properly.

tinny is a sign of recruitment. get the audi to lower the gain (or raise the compression ratio or lower the kneepoint. these do the same things indirectly.) for the tinny frequencies.

Yes, I read on one of the other threads that this type of issue can be the result of recruitment. I’ll try some additional adjustments with the audi.

My other thought is that it is the result of my type of unusual loss. Its kind of a reverse ski slope with most of the loss in the low end. Apparently, the Inteo moves some high frequency sounds into a lower range to help people with high end loss. I wonder if it is possible that in my case, this makes the high frequency sounds easier to tolerate, given that I don’t have as much loss in the high frequency range, but need high volume to compensate for the low end loss?

Has anyone else had experienced with either the Inteo or the Epoq?

Thanks.

My audigram is:
250, L-30 R-75
500, L-35 R-85
1000, L-25 R-75
2000, L-40 R-80
3000, L-30 R-50
4000, L-30 R-45
6000, L-35 R-45
8000, L-25 R-40