New Bernafon Juna

Hello,

the new Bernafon Juna has a new option which is called envelope priority. Bernafon describes it like that:
Envelope Priority is designed to support hearing-impaired people who rely on the information from the envelope for speech understanding. This strategy applies less alteration to the amplification of the speech signal, preserving the envelope information.
Further Bernafon talks about it as it is best for people with “poor auditory resolution abilities”. Does this mean, it is only for people with severe hearingloss?
Do you have experiences with this kind of technology in other hearing aids? Is it worth to upgrade to Juna for this feature (for profound to severe hearingloss)? What do you think?

audio-gram?

in the internet world you can set routers, switches, etc… to recognize certain packet types and handle them ahead of normal traffic… I’m guessing it’s a variation.

— Updated —

audio-gram?

in the internet world you can set routers, switches, etc… to recognize certain packet types and handle them ahead of normal traffic… I’m guessing it’s a variation.

jusaname,
I just purchased the new Bernafon Juna 9s at Costco and have posted a short review in the “Hearing Aids” forum under Costco Kirkland Signature 5.0. It’s their current top of the line product.

Why would you bury it in a thread about Kirkland 5.0? I would think a new thread based on your review of the Juna 9s would reach more people. Anyway thanks for the info. I am seriously looking at those now instead of the Kirklands.

— Updated —

Why would you bury it in a thread about Kirkland 5.0? I would think a new thread based on your review of the Juna 9s would reach more people. Anyway thanks for the info. I am seriously looking at those now instead of the Kirklands.

I just got a Juna-9, my first hearing aid, a couple of weeks ago from Costco. So far I like it very much, though I have no comparison. There is no echo and very little distortion. I had trouble hearing conversations in noisy rooms like restaurants. I tried it in a restaurant this weekend and could hear everyone at the table clearly. I have my two-week appointment in a few days, but so far so good.

Hi,
do you hear music? Do you have the live music plus program activated? Please keep us posted, I´m very interested!

Musician_72

I am an amateur musician, so that would come in handy. They didn’t load that program but I will ask for it tomorrow when I go for my checkup.

Hi All – I am currently trialing both the BTE and the RIC version of the Juna 9s (from costco). These are my 4th pair of aids in 6 years as my loss has progressed and decided to try the costco route just for something completely different as I was frustrated with my current audis very limited knowledge. Call it luck of the draw, but I have yet to find an audiologist who really truly understands the programming (especially for music) and I have been through 5 of them. I admit I am very picky and am probably the kind of client that sends most audiologist running for the hills…:-). Not an easy fit espcially with my kind of loss (normal lows and no highs)…but hearing is crucial for me as a musician and aids are expensive both in time an money…sooooo

That said, I just happened to be in the costco for my initial test the same day the Bernafon rep came through – call it fate or whatever, but this guy is the real deal – extremely experience audiologist and electrical/audio engineer who totally “gets it” and we talked for over an hour at a depth I have never experienced with any audiologist to date.

I am professional musician (guitarist) and I also self program using the Oasis 20 software (you can get it free on the bernafon site). So far the music program on these is really remarkable – I have used it in several live playing situations and Bernafon really has the music thing figured out (no limiting on the gain (up to 120db peak), everything off compression-wise, Freq composition-wise, etc…) – by far the cleanest most natural response in a music setting I have ever experienced with aids – makes it fun to play again :slight_smile:

I am still struggling a little with fine tuning the speech recognition, but mine is terrible anyway (see my audiogram) so I don’t have much to work with to begin with. I will post more as I get into it further. I spent 2 and half hours on a GoToMeeting session with this rep going through Oasis and so I have much to try and tweak still but it was extremely illuminating. In the end I may not get it right for speech (really the priority when all is said and done) and I may be compelled to try some Oticon MiniRITEs (at twice the cost from someone else)… but there is time. Anyway…more soon.
Ford

Hi Ford,

thank´s for your views on the juna. But a bit off-topic: Do you play acoustic or electric guitar? In the later case: What about in-ear monitoring? Wouldn´t it be wise to protect your residual hearing?

It´s good to hear, that the juna´s are really good at music (one doesn´t know if the ads are true), but for me as a music-teacher, speech-recognition is also crucial. I think i´ll get the junas to test in about two weeks or so.

Be careful with your ears!

Best regards

Musician_72

I actually play both, and also bass – yes…I am extremely concerned with protecting what I have left.
I have been working with using a small digital mixer that I can use to mix the output from the main board to send me two monitoring signals – one to my SoundGate (the bernafon wireless interface) that puts a mix directly to my aids, and the other to a pair of isolation headphones I wear over the top. Initial testing sounds really good actually. I turn off the mics in the Aids, then put isolation headphones over my ears/aids – could also use just hearing protectors like they use for chain saws and guns)… to mitigate the room sound. In the case of the isolation phones, I lose some low end response (especially with acoustic guitar) by isolating the room sound, so I carefully add back in a little of the normal mix in the headphones after I have a comfortable level in the aids – just enough to replace and balance the lows, and the result is a pretty darn good mix, with the high end tuned to my extreme hearing loss, and all overall at a total DB level that I can control. This is essential in live settings like clubs or weddings where noise and volume can get way out of hand.

Of course this requires mics and or directs or otherwise output from a main mixing board to your personal mix board to accomplish – I am still working this out. I have ordered a new small digital mixer that has multi channels and great onboard effects, but most importantly has ability to craft eq and compression/limiting for each of the inputs and save everything as an “environment” – not sure how good this will be in practice but I should know more when it gets here this week.

But… the other day I had no mixers or otherwise and I played a duo with a drummer (playing very softly – someone I have worked with for many years so no surprises) and me on (amplified) acoustic guitar – mostly jazz improv. The experience was very gratifying. We controlled the overall level very consciously, and were pretty safely in comfort sound range in that particular setting. However, my eventual aim is to have a complete environment monitoring setup that I can control and bring with me to live situations that may get loud, so that I can positively protect what hearing I have left :slight_smile:

IEMs are great start but can be really dangerous, and anyway the single mix from a board to IEM cannot accommodate the drastic eq curve required by my hearing loss without getting too loud. Most mixers have EQ range of ± 15 or 20 db max – you can see my Audiogram – I need the +80 db the aids provide in the HF…

Ideally I would fully occlude my earmolds with my aids to give complete isolation (the iso headphones only give about -28db) and create a custom program that adds some low end into the sound – at present my low end is pretty normal so the aids don’t mess with it. The Bernafon rep I am working with says this is totally doable… so will see what he and I can come up with once I get the basics tuned up.

When I tried IEMs (decent Sures) previously I could get virtually complete isolation - I sometimes put them in unplugged in the car just to enjoy the silence – but the eq could never be adjusted to give me enough high end with a balance low end without overall too much volume – and I am very sure that many years of endless hours of studio mixing on headphones (I am audio engineer) was what ultimately did my hearing in (though playing bass in a blues band for several years with a “deaf” drummer and “deaf” guitar player did not help probably :slight_smile:

Has anybody used the i-VC (volume control) feature? Does this really help to understand speech in noisy situations?

Hi ford,

thanks for your long answer! I am glad to hear that you do protect your hearing, and I must admit that I had not thought about the gain on a normal eq not being enough for your hearing loss, but of course you are right.

Best whishes, Musician_72

I still like my Bernafon Junas. I’m struggling with hearing conversation in a moving car. Restaurant mode works well if I’m by myself listening to the radio (road noise is greatly reduced) but when 2 or 3 people are in the moving car, it’s tough to hear. Volume cranked. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Are you driving the car? Some hearing aids (from Phonak and Rexton) are able to change the microphone mode to focus on the side or rear if you’re not able to face the person you want to hear. For the Juna, you could try having the Conversation in a Car program added and see if that helps.

I had problems in the car with the microphone changing the direction all the time. I recommend “fixed omni directional” in the car over “adapative(constantly changing) directional”.

I have another check up soon…wasn’t aware of a Conversation in a Car program. Thank you. Will also ask about fixed omni directional".

Hi Ford:

I’m getting Bernafon Junas next week. I too am a musician (Elec. Guitar) as well as a tech geek. I’m sure it is not recommended but I am very interested in being able to program my hearing aids myself. What programming interface are you using with the Oasis software, and how did you get it?

Thanks,

I am using an older Hi-Pro interface (serial) that I got on ebay for about $300 – there are newer models (USB and Wireless), though I am told the wireless interface can be extremely slow updating… no wires is VERY appealing and perhaps someone who has or has used one can chime in.

A fast look at ebay produced this http://www.ebay.com/itm/381056960160

The Oasis software is available online (last I looked) but you have to dig around. I found my copy on the German website and the local (west coast) Bernafon rep I have been directly working with was not even aware it was there - I can PM you his info if you want – he is very knowledgeable and loves what he does.:slight_smile:

… or I can send you a link to my copy of Oasis 20 if you go that way – they may have updated the firmware since I purchased mine (in Dec) and sometimes you have to make sure the software and firmware are in sync… (at least that was the case with my old Unitrons)

Programming takes patience, and more severe loss is more difficult to tweak I have found. Also, much has to do with acoustics (tubes, molds, etc) as well as software so be patient during your trials! Find an audi who is open to your self programming and that that will help. Be sure to try both BTE (thin tubes) and RICS – I eventually went with thin tubes as the sound was comparable and the maintenance is WAY easier… and there are other benefits for performing musicians (swapping out molds to use aids as In Ear Monitors – I can discuss further off line with you if you want).

There is no substitute for being able to to tweak settings at home if you are inclined and I have found most audis very agreeable (it saves them hours of sessions with you if you can learn it yourself) and it really is not rocket science – it just takes LOTS of patience. Best to tweak a little, and then live with it for a day or so, then tweak again.

Happy to discuss my experience further with you if you want. I am pretty comfortable with the software now.

Good luck - Ford

Hi

I´m using a fitting link, bought it here: http://revear-shop.de/

It cost €400 , but it´s wireless, so you don´t need to buy cables. Write them an email and ask if they ship to the us.

I am also very patient when changing something with the amplification. But I do play around with the other stuff quite a lot. There are dozens of programs for the juna, but only 4 program slots, so one can never use all the features when you don´t have a programming interface.

The software is very easy, but it helps to have a good basic knowledge of acoustics and so on.

Good luck!

Just had my second Costco visit to demo the Juna 9. It was deemed the “Cadillac” of hearing aids supposedly. They were horrendous. When I got then turned up loud enough to hear people, I still couldn’t make out their words and it sounded like I way yelling in my ears. They told me they couldn’t program the Trax 42 for my appointment today and said most people return the Trax 42s but that seems suspicious since somehow they were able to program the Junas. At any rate, I made another appointment for next week and I told them to program the Trax 42s and the Kirklands that I originally tested and if the Trax don’t blow me away, I am going to go for the Kirklands and be done with it. My thought process is that I need some kind of hearing aid and if they all suck, I am going to spend $1800 instead of $3600 and just use them for meetings and holidays.