Need help!

I have tried the Orticon Delta 8000 and the Moxi Element 16. Tried a zillion different computer set settings already, on both units, to no avail. With the Orticon, I could not hear speech in a crowd well at all. My wife told me to get rid of them. The Moxie switches programs differently in each ear and walking around with thoes differences is ultra annoying. The Moxi sounded most life like to me. Cost is a high factor to consider. Next sugestion by the Audi is the Phonak V, w/remote to switch programs manually to my liking. But to me, isn’t it going to perform much like the Moxi being from the same family?? Or a Moxi in different dress?
I want the Siemans Centre Active but the Audi says she has had poor responce on repairs from Siemans on out of warrenty units. She says she can get them but they drop you like a hot potato after warrenty she says. True or not true (???). I heard that the Centre Active is a “softer presentation” to the ear. It is also cost effective with remote and recharge batteries and is very well made and more waterproof. I am reading that the Centre has good un-artificial natural sound. The Siemans has e2e which should help to equal the sound out from ear to ear. On the negative side I read where the Sieman tubeing is bigger and stiffer, true or not true?? I am also considering the GN ReSound Azure as a possibility but it is a distant second to the Centre Active, Im thinking.
Your thoughts on this please. I know it is to my ear and ultimatly my choice.


This is really going to sound bad… (doesn’t everything when you have a hearing loss):slight_smile:

I doubt that switching hearing aids over and again is really getting to the source of your problem. Several of those instruments you mentioned can be adjusted to provide more or less gain for speech or to decrease or increase the program changing.

I think you might consider these two questions:

  1. Are you confident in your audiologist’s abilities to adjust the devices? Is he or she using good verification methods (Probe mic/REM)?

If you are not confident that this person is an expert, perhaps you should consider another person, not another device. If you are confident… Great! Stick with them and it will get better.

  1. Are your expectations appropriate for your hearing loss? Have you worn hearing aids before?

One of the first things I discuss with patients is what I feel that I/the hearing aids can and can’t reasonably deliver. Certainly, you should hear better in a variety of situations, but equally as important is knowing when you may not hear as well you really want to.

It has been my experience that rarely does switching devices mulitple times solve the problem. Usually it is solved by addressing why you need to change.

Sorry if I sound like a philosopher. I hope this makes some sense.

i like the azure quite alot

Penny Stock Pick

I only tried two. I also have seen it posted here, as well as on several boards, the fact that Unitron/Phonak products do not filter well in noisy invironments and run different programs in each ear to the point of annoyance. I don’t know why audi’s are so protective to defend Phonak/Orticon probucts as an end all. Current Digital Hearing Aids are not perfect. Many many people still prefere analogue aids as being superior. Why should I put up with the digital ideosyncrosies of a poorly designed product. We tried to adjust the programs to work and are at an end. Phonak/Orticon probucts have a lower market share of sales than Siemans and GN ReSound. Build a better mouse trap and the world will come to your door. There are differences in the sound and quality of the different aids that are manufactured. And they cost an arm and a leg. Before you shoehorn a unit on them at least give the end user lateral expansion to move to something other than your pet brand if they feel the need. After all they have to live with them, day in and day out, long after the monthly payments have been made.
However your point is being considered.

Sorry! I diden’t mean to be so brisk. I am just tired of the whole thing an had to vent. I will let the post stand as it is and as I am feeling. This would have surfaced sooner or later with me. But I do appolagize for it, this could have been presented more politly. I thank you all for going out of the way to help me.:slight_smile:

GN does not have a higher market share than
Phonak and certainly not Oticon…

GN has been a trouble company for a long long long time
it was no secret that GN group tryed to get rid of the
hearing aid business, phonak (sonova) was going to get
them buy a anti trust ruling prevent the merger to happend…

GN has a less than stellar product portfolio, just to give you an
example, GN does not have a digital aid that fits more than 100 db

while most companies do, (almost everycompany out there)

Siemens is yes the biggest company out there but, just by a little bit
by 22% share of market follow by the willam demant group with 20%

I think its important to provide info as accurate as posible


:confused: “…GN does not have a digital aid that fits more than 100 db…”

I’ve been under the impression that much of a loss is not really “aidable”. My hearing in my left hear has recently dropped to -90dB at 2K & 3K Hz.

Is there an aid on the market that can remediate that much loss?

Sorry! I should have specified “American Market” share.
A copied recient piece from Forbes.
Songbird is competing in an industry crowded with foreign players. German engineering company Siemens (nyse: SI - news - people) is thought to have a 21% share of the American hearing aid market, according to an industry trade publication, followed by GN Resound, a unit of electronic equipment company GN Store Nord, which has between 16% and 18% market share. Privately held Minneapolis-based Starkey holds between 14% and 18% of the market, and the Danish group William Demant commands between 14% and 16%. Swiss health care company Phonak has about 12% to 15%.

No harm. No Foul.

I can certainly understand the frustration you are experiencing. My post was in no way meant to defend anybody. I have no allegiance to Phonak, Unitron, Windex, Sharkey, ReSound or anybody.

My point is that usually the problems in sound quality have much more to do with how the device is programmed than they do with the device itself. For example, I might fit you with a brand X hearing aid and you could come back and tell me that it sounds shrill, my voice is unnatural, and background noises are way too sharp. There are adjustments to the gain, compression and output that can address all of those complaints. Here’s another example: I have had a number of complaints about the hearing aids “Cutting-out” in noisy environments. That is part of the algorithm of that particular chip, but, I can change the sensitivity of the device to noise, the frequency of the “cutting-out” and the degree to which it turns things down…

My point is that the sound quality issues are almost always related to the device settings, and are adjustable. That doesnt’ mean that I always adjust them perfectly. I just don’t want to see you try 10 different devices and come to the conclusion that no hearing aids are good when there maybe ways to make you more successful.

Thanks for the reply DocG.:slight_smile: I understand and agree with what you are saying 100%. At age 57 I am not educated at all in Audiology. My mistake is having a sound/practice room in my basement along with Sonar /Cubase recording software for the band. Also equiptment for compression, gender bending, ect along with a couple of EQ boards. I also do Ham radio and receiently had a hard time dialing my studio microphone in with the compression/digital filtering features of the rig and the external EQ board. Soooo I find this stuff very interesting and have read a ton on it.
But that causes problems in and of itself with getting hearing aids. I guess I am like the guy who comes into the doctor and wants the new medication he saw on TV. Armed and dangerous. Or more like armed and dumb.:frowning:

american market share,
i did not know starkey where so open about his market share

where did you say we can find this source?


Numbears: Hello fellow ham. I used to be KN3R.

Siemens is a fine company with super engineering. FYI: many audiologists do not like to sell Siemens because they will wholesale to any small distributer so that the profit margins are slim.

My personal experience with Siemens products is that they are certainly equal to any of the best…maybe even better in construction and ruggedness.

Aids do sound different even if programmed identically because they have different algorithms, different mikes and receivers, and different DSP’s.

Because you are technical, give some thought to self programming. You will need an interface box ($600) and programming cables ($125) plus fitting software (free).

The only good company offering self programming with all the fitting hardware for free is They are reliable, competent, and helpfull. Ed

Certainly not armed and dumb!

I think it is great that people like yourself are looking for more than the “canned” answer that you might get from many hearing aid sales-people.

Living in Nashville, I have a quite a lot of experience with people who are in the music business and sound afficianodos. I enjoy interacting with people who we call sophisticated listeners because they can better describe the situations that are not satisfactory.

The bottom line of all of my rants here is that a competent professional should be able to address your concerns with changes to the device parameters or honestly let you know where the hearing aid cannot meet your goals. While it is true that different hearing aids have different algorithms, most higher-tech devices can be tweaked to function many different ways. I can even take a high-end hearing aid and make it function just like an old linear, analog device if the patient so desires.

I certainly don’t have all the answers, nor do I have the 100% satisfaction that I aim for with my patients. Nonetheless, the more I do this, the more research I perform, the more research I read, the more I believe that satisfaction lies primarily in matching the programming with the patient and his or her specific listening environment. There is no perfect algorithm for everybody.

be aware of the dangers of self programming hearing aids,


Xbulder: Sorry if this sounds critical, but I think you do a disservice to some computer literate folks that are comfortable doing their own programming and the couple of companies that service them. Self-programming is certainly not for everyone, just the minority of hoh that will study the ramifications and nuances of hearing loss and learn about the partially remedial hardware that is available.

I agree, anyone with hearing loss that does not initially seek the services of an ENT or Audiologist to determine the cause, is foolish and could get themselves into serious trouble.

Having said that, do you think you should post these dangers you refer to so we can analyze there general applicability to real people with real common sense who have previously determined the cause of their loss. Ed

To add to your comment, with my America Hears aids, I never adjusted the settings on my own, but always called in, described what was going on or another program I needed, and was able to download the settings into the aids later that same day. Beat the heck out of calling the audie’s office and getting an appointment for three weeks later. :cool:

Well I opted not to do the self programing at this time as I am learning much from you guys as well as my Audi. She echoed the same sentiment that working with me being a more active part was a joy for her too. Yes she programs but also teaches and asks for thought and input from me.

On another note, I did opt to get the ReSound Azure’s. And as DocG has said I will try to make them do. Programing can do a lot and the Azure add plenty of programing options to tweek. Thanks again for all the input.:slight_smile:

I would echo the advice above about making sure your Audi is focusing on your issue and has the technical skill to correct any issues. I would think that if you returned, even once, that audi would contact manuf. and correct issue while you were in the office.

On a side note, if it takes 3 weeks to get in when you’re having issues, hmmmmm? Might want to mention that as well, as some audis are really NOT in the scheduling loop and this person might be disappointed in their staff to find that out.

Good luck with the new ‘amps’ and let us know when you get in the ‘zone’

They were loaner units, first off. Secondly, when I am paying the bill, I opted to buy the one I found most to my liking based on all available information I could find on the web. That included white papers, owners manuals, manuf bull…er… I mean advertising and what I could find out from all the forums like this one as well as personal interviews and advise from my audi.

Some people you can stick in a Yugo and they could care less and go along their way. Others disscern, to a nats ass, the specs of a Bemmer Five Series and a Mercedies Three Series but claim all the difference in the world and are only happy with the right one for them after test driving. Yet some would say you could make either car work for you and feel the same with adjustments…I don’t think so. There differences are debated continually by auto mags, engineers, the public and so on.

And just as Ford did not re-engineer the Pinto, after finding out the gas caps would not be any good from the start of production, I don’t think a call to the hearing aid manufacturer is going to prompt them to re-engineer their hearing aids just for what I found inheriantly disturbing in there design. This industry has their own sins to hide also. Or do you think we are suppost to be dumb and not see or feel this? All my complaints, with the models tried, are the same as others have mirrored even here on this board. Hearing aids are not all the same nor are they all perfect. Thank goodness for trial periods.:eek:

I would not compare cars with hearing aids,

what seem no to understand is that most hearing aids use the same chipset.

therefore, tweaking a hearing aid generally boils down to software.

while teaking a pinto or a gas cap, ford had to write off its inventory,

loose material, etc.

I would tend to think most hearing aids had been tested extensively,

moreover, most comercial aids use fitting formulas such as DSL and NAL

which had been prove to work fine…