Nano coating proccess question

OK I scoured the internet for an hour no luck finding any info on how and when the nano coating is applied, other than the generic vacuum cover all surface quote.

What I want to know is do they nano coat components in the aids separately before assembling or after the aid is assembled and nano coat the entire thing as one? or do the manufactures do it differently from one another?

If it is done after its assembled do they re-coat the aid after repairs, in that the new components would not have any protection.

As the end user we have total responsibility for the aid. How the heck are we suppose to know whether the aid actually got the entire treatment to cover “EVERY” component? Other than the word of the manufacturer, which means, shit these days. Sure as heck not going to dunk the aid to test it. Surface test is inadequate by doping a drop of water on the housing because it doesn’t test the surface, most vital, the internal workings.

now the aquaris and lotus there are gaskets, membranes rubberized surfaces and seals which are visible to naked eye to be seen as working.

Right now there isn’t enough over site and regulation governing the application of the nano coating to ensure its actually getting used on everything and done correctly. There are also no steep fines for those who violate the trust of the consumer since it is entirely word of mouth trust that its has actually been applied properly. As is there is absolutely no way for us end users to properly test it our selves to ensure proper application. since we are the end user all responsability is on use since we are the ones who have to live with the consequences of a failed job on the devices.

To me it sounds like another round of the “miracle cure” that treats all ailments and illnesses. Only it is simply booze.

Its one thing to see a tissue treated and dunked in bowl of water. Its another thing entirely to take their word and not beadle to test the aid for actual full coverage.

I think they need to add some kind of light-refractor to the coating that gets mixed in, so when looked at, under light it refracts it a certain way so it can be seen by the naked eye. Reason for light refactor mixed in. It is too easy to forge paints or dye. What ever it is, has to be unique and exclusive of the nano coating. It is a form of assurance/security marker similar to water mark in currency to validate this is actually what it is…

anyone have any idea what the nano coating costs to be applied and the material involved?

They say it is suppose to bind on molecular level and that it is a polymer(plastic?) 60-80 nano thick, bind to metal too?

There simply is not enough info for general public…That isn’t a scientific paper I really don’t need to know its chemistry. nor do I need to wade through the techno jumble used to stroke their big as dumb rocks egos. terminology has it use as identifiers for communication but the people that come up with the terms are simply full of them selves and trying to justify to the world that they think they are smarter than anyone else. When it simply just is not true.

Is the “P2i” the only current nano coating available right now?

following is some of the crap I dug up on the issue.


http://www.crystalhearinguk.co.uk/unitron-hearing-aids.php following
Quote “Unitron 360 - This is a super-power BTE hearing aid housed in a nano-coated casing for maximum moisture protection. The Unitron 360 utilises top range technology not typically found in high power instruments, such as speech enhancer, anti-shock impulse sound damping, remote control, easy-t (for telephone usage), data-logging, wind noise manager etc. Click the link below for more details on the new 360 by Unitron.” Note the red it says the housing is coated doesn’t even mention the components inside which are the real parts needed coating Casing doesn’t break from moisture :rolleyes:! when the casing is assembled the gap between the casing edges is greater than 60-80 nano. basing entirely on what is said here the nano coating is nothing more than waterproofing plastic casing that is already water proof sheesh.

hopefully now you see why I don’t trust nano coating without being able to verify it myself.

I did not have to hunt for the above example it was the first one that came up.

If anything, if just the casing itself was coated and not the inside components the water would beadle to penetrate even easier due to lack of surface friction/tension that would normally give resistance to prevent water movement across surfaces. example hole or where two edges of the casing meet where there is no gasket or other alternative seal. With no surface resistance the water drop will flow right through the crack or hole. Where surface tension resistance has kept it out before.

I played with water, surface textures and light for arts project. like having pinholes in bottom of buckets or other surface and then applying water while water would not go through the said holes and playing light across the surface for refracting lens effect. Its just a creative form of physics project…

I know some will argue the water surface tension is greater than the resistance of the nano coating therefore the water won’t stick long enough to the surface to give the water enough time and chance to penetrate said holes or cracks in the casing. The counter is angle and edge of the holes and cracks that water runs across will grip and redirect water to where it isn’t suppose to go. So without a rubber casket between the edges of the case pieces it will just go inside, path of least resistance.

Thats why nano needs to be applied to all surfaces to work effectively. So even if water gets in it won’t stick to the components inside unless the water gets trapped in a bowl dip with no external escape route to drain out through.

a door in the housing that is water tight, would be handy for drying out the inside, if water actually got inside the main housing the door could be popped open, to be placed in a dry and store device to evaporate said moisture though the door before corrosion set in. As hearing aids get more water tight it becomes that much harder to actually dry the aid out without an escape route for the moisture to go.

I guess, I should really be saying, is, I totally trust the nano coating. Its the people who handle it, I don’t trust because they have not inspired trust worthiness over the past decade or longer… Therefore there needs to be over site and a way for us to validate the nano coating. As a check and balance.

Corey

Hi Corey,

Great post and questions. You ask how the nano-coating is applied to hearing aids as well as to what areas of the devices and we would like to take this opportunity to explain how Aridion, our coating for hearing aids works. Firstly, Aridion is applied to fully assembled hearing aids and coats both the external and internal components as it is introduced as a gas which permeates every exposed aspect of the hearing aid ensuring that all aspects are treated. The process of applying the coating occurs within a P2i nano-coating system where a plasma process activates the entire surface of the hearing aid (externally and internally). Once the surface is activated we introduce our liquid repellent monomer that molecularly bonds to every exposed surface of the hearing aid, this drastically reduces the surface energy resulting in water and other liquids beading up and rolling off. This however is more of a feature than a benefit as this repellent properties of our coating ensure that the hearing aids do not suffer from corrosion and water damage that can occur in wet and high humidity/moisture environments.

One of the reasons that you can’t see or feel the coating is that it is 1,000 times thinner than a human hair and not visible to the human eye, it can also not be felt as it does not change the look or feel of the surface either. We have produced a video that explains this process in more detail the video does feature a smartphone but the process echoes that for hearing aids. You can see this video by visiting our YouTube channel and watching the P2i Process: Electronics video.

You also highlight that water can get into the device and cause damage that way. Gaskets and O-rings can stop water from getting inside but these components alter the look, feel and weight of the device, they can also break or move with extensive use or when dropped resulting in water penetrating inside and damaging the internal components. What makes Aridion stand out is that although it is not a physical barrier it coats all aspects of the hearing aid so any water/moisture that works its way inside will bead up and remain on top of the surface reducing the damage that could be caused. In addition, Aridion is also extremely durable and last as long as the material it is bonded to, it is also non-cytotoxic, non-irritating and non-allergenic. Finally you raise the question about how to verify the coating is there, which is difficult as our coating is invisible that said our coating does go through extensive QA checks carried out during the manufacturing process to ensure the coating performs consistently.

I hope that helps to answer a few of your questions? You can find out more about our technology by visiting p2i.com and the electronics page. We also have a specific data sheet on hearing aids that can be send to you if that is of interest?

Thanks,

P2i

thanks for the input. understood it all.

what about after repairs?? do you recoat the aid to cover the new components inside?.. If you don’t the new components are all susceptible to corrosion, which defeats the purpose of the coating. For the replacement component would them be subject to repeat failures. weakest link in the chain.

As you mentioned about not seeing and feeling That is what truly concerns me, as an end users, because there is no way for us to verify it is actually coated.

As an industry It is your responsibility to prove the aids we get are actually coated beyond simply saying its coated, since we as end users have no way to tell if the coating is there or not.

I am assuming the process is expensive considering the surface area is not huge in terms of square inches covered.

other reason I say its your responsibility to prove beyond a doubt is how many industries have Lied or falsified results or applications.

tainted ingredients in pet foods, industrial chemicals added to baby formula to spike protein levels in tests, Lead in paint, even when we have policy forbidding it. Not meeting head clearance in Toyota when USA requires it.

The List goes on forever.

So you can see, you your self might be trust worthy but too many BIG and small institutions have not been honest to their consumers, so it voids anything you say by word of mouth. Without written guarantee
or a visual cue for the end user, we can take to court, your word that its covered doesn’t mean squat.

So unless you can prove its coated through like some kind of optic shimmer that can be seen with the naked eye such as light refracting for example. Or give a longer warranty of coverage as proof that you stand behind it. Then As far as the end user is concerned its “NOT” coated.

I am not against nano coating I have issue of proof and oversight. And quality control

I use to be amazed but now simply amused…

?? huh??

That is an out of context comment, care to elaborate on it. Amazed and Amused about what?

It does seem that you have pressure of speech and possibly
“Circumstantial speech (also referred to as circumstantiality) is a communication disorder in which the focus of a conversation drifts, but often comes back to the point.[1] In circumstantiality, unnecessary details and irrelevant remarks cause a delay in getting to the point.[2]”.

Also, you seem to have a sense of entitlement and your posts could be interpreted as bombastic. Whatever you have, if anything, is likely ego-syntonic.
If I were trained in this field there might be more to see here, but that’s all I have for now. :cool:

On the bright side, I don’t guess you offend people like Ms. Cheeks did.

BTW, I wouldn’t care if they coated the components with bird caca as long as the aid worked reasonably well for a long-enough interval. How far up their butts do you want to go?

basically the gentlemen was nice enough to give you a detailed answer with additional information offered and you more or less told him he was full of sh!t.

What about aids without vents, how will the coating get inside the aid to cover the internal components.

  •     Regarding repairs, we supply manufacturers with our nano-coating machines for them to apply our coating to devices. However you would need to contact the brands/manufacturers themselves to find out if they apply a nano-coating to the replacement components as well. To answer your question Silent Night, it depends on the styles of hearing aids that are treated, for example if it did not have vents then the coating may only be applied to the outside or alternatively the coating may be applied to all parts before final assembly. This again will be decided by the brands/manufacturers. However as our coating is applied as a gas it can penerate the smallest gaps and coat the internal components at the same time as the external surfaces. Thanks.

Thanks for the info above, I’ve worked with sputter coating processes before, putting layers of material onto industrial diamonds, using charge and inert gasses. It’s an interesting field.

I would assume that it’s impossible to nano coat an electret mic as you ion discharge would strip the electrons from the Mylar surface inside.Conventional Receiver technology is perhaps ok, but I’m not sure about the smallest panel excitation speakers in the iics.

Is a slight weakness of the system, the risk that you will potentially hasten the migration of perspiration beads into crevices?, especially with exoskeletal designs?

The resident village idiot doesn’t really have a grasp of the real processes involved.

I would be surprised to find the whole thing inside & out coated and had assumed it was only the outside. The are multiple ways to inexpensively conformally coat electronics, but in general you want to avoid anything that moves (mic, recievers) or has exposed contacts (battery tabs, switches, pots).

I have really read nothing about coating of hearing aids, and had assumed this was the latest marketing gimmick.

My understanding is that the nano-coating is done to components of the hearing aids at the factory. http://www.p2i.com/aridion This link should take you to the P2i Aridion site, and that is the nano-coating we use at Sam’s. I’ve had members take showers with aids on and experience no trouble.*

  • I DO NOT suggest you take a shower with your hearing aids on, no matter what the package says.

I asked a rep with seimens they only coat the outside of theirs. So if a aid is designed badly like the pixels then there is no point wasting the money on the coating for the components inside would not be coated nor protected anyway.

I asked them because I hadn’t heard an answer from P2i about it.

I was asking about repair re-coating of inside components.

Because there are so many ways in which its applied they need to come up with a warranty extension for coated aids as a means to ensure the end user that they indeed put it on in first place.

Following is off topic:
Following was reply to poster who was try to psycho analyze me.

As far as the jumping around, You might not see the relevance. I do from my perspective. Also I am use to chat rooms or verbal communication where conversations are rapid and back and forth. So no need for long post, I am not use to forums especially with these sometimes long delays between posts…

I am simply covering my basis. Don’t have big ego, If I have not responded is because I didn’t know that I needed to respond to something. I do not use any of the fancy tracking features of the site is all. Ego - definition of ego by The Free Dictionary Is this statement of a person with big ego? When asking myself “what actions have I done to improve the lives of myself and those around me?” “What Have I done to make this world a better place?” In order to have a big ego would need to compare to others When dealing with self-worth. My comparisons on here is merely try to demonstrate where wrong doing is occurring which does require comparison.

If anything I go out of my way to respond to people note one line replies to me and I do a page reply which takes considerable time from my life to do.

Since there is so little to one line replies I have to guess as to the real meaning the poster was trying to convey.

As far as communication flaws well I don’t have any of the disorders you mentioned but what can cause it is exclusion by society. So I don’t have someone to talk to on daily basis who can correct me when I make a mistake in way I present myself.

What you mistaken for entitlement is crap. Its justice I seek . Correcting of wrong doing. Holding people accountable for their mistakes.
And the right to be included. Social responsibility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_responsibility this is not entitlement.

Prove a point off topic I just spent 2 days going around our city listing violating businesses of sidewalk ordinance code. I wrote up 5 page report of the city ordinances and most but not all the offending businesses. I then took that report before city council on open floor. Mainly because too many of the sidewalks were blocked during the day making it impossible for mobility disabled to use sidewalks. Ready for the punchline? I am able body I get NO personal reward for this, Nor do I get recognition. I did it because it needed to be done , No one else was stepping up. If I had big ego I wouldn’t have even seen the side walk blocking as a problem to begin with because it did not effect me.

Getting to the point of some issues requires back ground and some times indirect information. Other wise we get in to this stinking you said he said crap that buries the point.

I also jump around due to memory issues and dyslexia. I never claimed to be perfect. I do not have any of the said disorders you mentioned. That statement is based on the medical professionals I deal with here. Mayo clinic and the PHD i see on regular basis has more credibility than you do and they also have access to my entire history, which you do not. I will listen to them before I would ever listen to a screen name on a non mental health forum.

Corey
PS to summarize communication faults of mine. The issues that effect my communication are as follows Dyslexia related to short term memory, hearing loss, social exclusion(nobody to practice with on hourly basis). Analogy Use it or loose it.

One other thing for long posts I don’t know when I will be back to respond so just covering basis and details is all.

Prove a point off topic I just spent 2 days going around our city listing violating businesses of sidewalk ordinance code. I wrote up 5 page report of the city ordinances and most but not all the offending businesses. I then took that report before city council on open floor. Mainly because too many of the sidewalks were blocked during the day making it impossible for mobility disabled to use sidewalks. Ready for the punchline? I am able body I get NO personal reward for this, Nor do I get recognition. I did it because it needed to be done , No one else was stepping up. If I had big ego I wouldn’t have even seen the side walk blocking as a problem to begin with because it did not effect me.

sounds like if you can do this maybe you could get yourself a job and get off the taxpayers dime.