Naida-which mode?

I am using Phonak iPFG to program my Naida VSPs. I know soundflow is working, but its becoming very difficult to understand which mode it`s in, at any particular time.

The three soundflow programs, are Calm situations, Speech in noise, and Comfort in noise.
I can only assume that Calm is sitting in a quiet room with no, or very little noise.
Speech in noise — restaurant!! Traffic, travelling by car, or perhaps listening to the TV?
Comfort in noise! How comfortable are you supposed to be at a party, in a dance hall, or doing DIY?

So having tuned these to understand my wife and the TV reasonably well without a loop system, why does it all seem like rubbish the next day? TV volume is not over loud, as my wife has very good hearing.

I have a LF loss to the right, and only hear LF sound in the left. Hearing is very distorted due to a sensorineural loss to the right. The left is described as a dead ear, but the LF does help.

Any thought please!

250   500   1k   2k   4k   7k

R 80 70 60 60 50 55
L 80 110 110 110 120 105

I am using Phonak iPFG to program my Naida VSPs. I know soundflow is working, but its becoming very difficult to understand which mode it`s in, at any particular time.

Are you trying to figure audibly which mode you are in when changing modes? Try turning on the warning beeps, maybe its not loud enough for you to notice? There are several tone parameters from low to high.

The three soundflow programs, are Calm situations, Speech in noise, and Comfort in noise.
I can only assume that Calm is sitting in a quiet room with no, or very little noise.
Speech in noise — restaurant!! Traffic, travelling by car, or perhaps listening to the TV?
Comfort in noise! How comfortable are you supposed to be at a party, in a dance hall, or doing DIY?

There are quite a bit of parameters to this one. I would assume you will need to go into wizard mode to adjust some of these settings. The comfort in noise can be set to maintain audibilty or actually turn off most annoying sounds. I would suggest using the wizard mode to help adjust some of these paramaters. You also need to back up you older settings, in case the new one sucks, so you can go back.

So having tuned these to understand my wife and the TV reasonably well without a loop system, why does it all seem like rubbish the next day? TV volume is not over loud, as my wife has very good hearing.

your system is continually adjusting to the environment. There are some parameters that can reduce this adjustment period. I believe it’s about “how experienced” your hearing aid use is…the initial adjustment asks about your hearing aid experience. That has something to do with the constant adjustments.

I don’t personally adjust my aids myself, but I have made over 20-30 adjustments with the help of my audi. I use the iPFG as a simulation mode so I can introduce ideas to my audi, help her in experience as well as myself. In my opinion, it really is best to DIY, as you can have this setup on a laptop and adjust in “realtime” mode in an actual environment, as opposed to a soundbooth. Phonak needs to take this in consideration for some users, as it is time consuming to both the end user and audi to make repeated appointments. Some audis charge per visit and other have unlimited free visits…depends on your audi…

If you need more detail in what you need adjusted, let me know. At this time, I am going off the top of my head, sometimes it’s not so sharp, and I’m in “coffee drinking mode” at this time…

Hi ljjehl. Thanks for your response.

I only have two modes. Soundflow and T+mic. so that`s not a problem, although I don’t hear any beeps left side, even if they are at max! LOL!

I have had hearing aids for six years. So my experience is 3 to 6 in the program, and using the non-linear setting.
I do not see a wizard, but do remember the option, which I declined as Phonak is unlikely to have met anyone like me!
I have tried the “Sound Type Tuning” which seemed to foul everything up – thank heaven for “snapshot” saving the bacon.

It’s the Soundflow programs that I don’t fully understand. Moving around they will change according to the sounds around me.

When I`m sitting in front of the TV, does the mix of dialogue, and background music still cause a continual change, or because the sound is from the direction of the TV speakers fix them in one mode?

I use NoahLink, and try listening to the TV as I make changes. Switching between Calm, Speech in noise and Comfort in noise, I hear a change to overall gain, but not the change to LF until I save and unplug from the aids.

I have always found I need time to adjust to any change. So too much LF now, is going to become less in an hour, and next day I need more. I don’t know if this is normal, or just me?

DIY is fine if they are set up, and all you need is a small adjustment. I have started almost from scratch, and it`s not a quick fix……

Go enjoy the coffee……

I only have two modes. Soundflow and T+mic. so that`s not a problem, although I don’t hear any beeps left side, even if they are at max! LOL!
You can also adjust the tone as well, since you have other manual modes, this is helpful in making sure Soundflow doesn’t switch around. I have 1. auto-Soundflow, 2. Speech in Noise, 3.Tcoil+mic, 4.Fm+mic, 5.Music, 6.mute(mute and auto mode do not count in the 4 modes)

I have had hearing aids for six years. So my experience is 3 to 6 in the program, and using the non-linear setting.

if you do not need a step by step adjustment period, you can go longer in the length of adjustment…

I do not see a wizard, but do remember the option, which I declined as Phonak is unlikely to have met anyone like me!

You sure? :slight_smile: Well, the wizard (not sure of correct term) mode does help make certain adjustments such as problems with sounds in certain environments, but if you feel you are advanced enough to get past this point, it’s your ears!! :slight_smile:

It’s the Soundflow programs that I don’t fully understand. Moving around they will change according to the sounds around me.

Soundflow is what it is, automatically adjusting…you can make a preferred setting to have (like speech in noise) the initial Sounflow program to start before others kick in, though

When I`m sitting in front of the TV, does the mix of dialogue, and background music still cause a continual change, or because the sound is from the direction of the TV speakers fix them in one mode?
I really have not worked with sound adjustments from TV mode, as I have been working with sounds outside the home…

I use NoahLink, and try listening to the TV as I make changes. Switching between Calm, Speech in noise and Comfort in noise, I hear a change to overall gain, but not the change to LF until I save and unplug from the aids.
You are farther in this on than I am…I still have yet to add a TV link to my system. I’m working on a bluetooth or FM connection though…

I have always found I need time to adjust to any change. So too much LF now, is going to become less in an hour, and next day I need more. I don’t know if this is normal, or just me?
I believe it takes about 3 days to adjust to changes, unless the change is really discomforting.

DIY is fine if they are set up, and all you need is a small adjustment. I have started almost from scratch, and it`s not a quick fix……
Glad you said that one, unless you are a pro and understand audiology, not an easy initial task.

Go enjoy the coffee……

You might try doing the “audiogram direct” to set up your initial settings.

The “wizard” selection is in the upper left portion of the screen. This is the best way to set up your aids if you are not a pro.

The “soundflow” is automatic control. It automatically changes from calm, speech in noise and comfort in noise, you do not control it. The aids do not beep when changing from one control mode to another.

You do have manual controls to over-ride the automatic soundflow control. You will get a beep when changing these manual modes.

Try the audiogram direct and the wizard and let the program do its stuff, you might like it.

Good luck,
Rick

Thanks Raudrive.
I have tried that after I coudnt get anywhere with the original settings. Saw the wizard, but didnt use it then, but will try that again. It’s the basis for the present setting, but still finding loud voices are very loud.

I know what compression is, but getting it to work is something else! It says “100%” but I don’t see what it`s doing if I change it. I get enough distortion, and know it can add to that.
Looking at “compression” in the pull down menu, I am trying to set it parallel to the calculated. It’s a gentle curve ranging from 1.9 to 2.1. Am I close, because it can look a bit like a spider?

MPO I can set so that none of the G80 in the EQ is greyed out, but trying the Sound Type Tuning, squashes the graph right up to the MPO. Not sure why?

I am using the T+Mic setting with the IR loop, so I can have some conversation while watching TV. My right ear is better with the mic, and hears more TV than the left. Im still working on that, as its very good with a Contego, when supermarket shopping with my wife.

Let you know how it goes in the next few days. Many thanks for your help.

Thanks ljjehl and Raudrive, for pointing me toward the wizard.

The first results were very encouraging, and still on going. Having one almost dead ear has it`s problems. Moderately loud sounds, have turned out to be putting mugs down on a hard surface, and seem to affect voices close to you.

I tried using sounds from the iPFG program, but can’t get the levels right. Real life sounds like a supermarket don’t seem too loud, and neither does traffic. Babies screaming is a totally different level of discomfort, and should have volume controls fitted!

The most difficult so far, is hearing in noise. The program takes off the LF what ever I adjust. I need the LF on the left side, as theres none coming from the right because thats what I lost. So at home with the radio in the background, and my wife speaking to me, her voice goes up an octave and I still can’t understand. It’s the same in a car. The left reduces volume and she sounds like a strangled cat!!!

More left gain overall, or just LF to the “speech in noise” program doesnt seem to work. I have tried to set it up as the calm situations, and that didnt work either. The next trial is to change the level of G80 G60 and G40 in turn, to see what happens.

I am making some headway with “T+Mic” and “T” programs. The “T” setting with the Contego is better than “T+Mic” in supermarkets, where it does cut down a lot of background noise, as there`s not too much LF in the program.

The “T+Mic” program really pushes the HF a lot. I am still trying to get a balance between the wife and TV. Not so easy!!

Let you know how I get on……

You can reduce the attenuation on the T+mic so the external mics do not overkill the effectiveness of the Tcoil. I reduced my attenuation (fitting-followup fit-program options) to the max -30, this reduced the effectiveness of the externals to around 2 feet range, so I can use the Tcoil in phone listening situations and also hear my voice. you can adjust accordingly for your preference…

You can also try removing the quicksync options (hearing system-hearing instrument options) of the aids, so they can work more independently (like one side for real ear sound and the other side for directional mic. Problem with this one, you will have to change modes independently in the left and right ears, as they will not change in tandem.

you can also change whether or not you have tcoil+mic in each ear (fitting-followup fit-program options)

Hi ljjehl.
It looks like I shall have to do that, and use the Contego for conversation. The mic picks up too much of the TV, and not enough wife at the moment.

I would rather stay with the “quick sync” to save on frustration and button pushing. If I had better hearing in the left, switching the Tcoil off that side would be the answer.

I didn’t know you had the Contego. That in itself will help with control, though that means a lot of “button fiddling”. I’ve always liked automatic control, but that only works in a perfect world.

I understand your preference to the quick syncs, as I’ve always liked the quick syncs. I think that you may have some success if you use the other manual settings for your left/right hearing preferences. I remember you saying that you have only one manual mode in use. You have the option to try three more on top of that (unless you are already ahead of me in this regard)

For example, try adding a traffic/speech in noise conversation mode with directional microphones, such as left mode and right mode. What I mean is attenuating the left or right microphones so it will help with listening on the left/right while driving. This might be too much work…you already have the Contego to help with this also…

You can also decide if you want Tcoil in one ear or both ears, also! There is an option there to separate the attenuation and other settings. It’s in the Fitting-Followup fit-Program Options. Go to Tcoil(or whatever your option is to configure) in #1, go to #3 press R/L and select which options of Tcoil,Tcoil+mic, or Microphone.

Have fun with the Naidas!! (Sorry, I’m a computer tech, so I love tinkering with electronics)

Leo

I must have been reading your mind! In the last few days, I have tried manual Speech in Noise I could understand the TV better, but after a few hours, the wifes voice shot up an octave. Now its day three of trying Comfort in Noise. The TV is clearer, and the wifes voice so far has stayed put until we get in the car. After a few miles it starts to rise, although not as much. I didnt expect a fixed program to change!

I discovered that moderately loud sounds were too loud. Taking G60 down about 2 db both sides helped with distortion. Too much volume has always been a problem.

If I can get the auto mode to work for me, I will use it. But I have to hear a certain amount of LF from the left to begin to understand anything. This is really the left side, shadowing the right. I don’t have any clarity, it just sounds about a fifth to one octave below what the right side hears. Difficult to explain, but this is where the balance between left and right is crucial.

So the Hearing in Noise program in soundflow cuts the LF to boost the HF, but is too drastic. I have tried to modify this in soundflow, but so far no luck.

There are so many options in the program, which makes these Naida very configurable. The wizard is useful to test a change, but with the Noah-Link connected to the Naidas they seem fixed in that mode. So going walkabout the auto action of soundflow doesnt appear to work.

I worked in the TV industry a while, so I don’t mind the tinkering if the results work. Hearing can be hard work………

After I posted, I had another try with the wizard using the on board sound demos. It takes a few seconds for any adjustment to sink in, and initially speech was muffled. A little more HF helped, but gave a little too much volume.
Although not that clear, I could understand different voices better, but still rely heavily on subs for the TV. This has gradually improved over a few days, and the left is now helping the right. There are still times when the left does it`s own thing, usually if there is too much noise. But I hope in time this will settle down.

Apart from reducing the overall volume 1db, Ive made no other change just in case I upset everything. This weekend we are having a short break away from computers and any tweaking…..That should sort me and these Naidas out! So I`ll let you know later how it goes.

Well! The short break wasn’t all disaster. It’s one way to test out the results of programming, and then think again……

It’s still difficult to tell if some of my distortion is from compression, or MPO.
Setting MPO so that G80 just clips, or should that be just not clip? Loud voices are still a problem.

Compression by default is 100%. It’s not clear to me, if this is minimum or maximum. It moves the graph either away from the calculated, or sits on it.
Im asking, because I have just done a manual Audiogram Direct, by selecting the Naidas from the list. This shows the calculated compression dotted graph, with the solid compression over the top. Very different from either the wizard, or with the Naida`s connected.

I have also found that making changes with overall gain and MPO, and not making a change to either G80, G60 or G40 helps to keep sounds in perspective.

Any comments welcome!