My road to (better) sound, take 2 (unilateral reverse steep slope type)

Hi all! Thanks for reading this :slight_smile:

I think I’ve read this forum back in 2015 when I decided to get HA after I lost hearing on left ear overnight in 2014, but I don’t remember finding so much information back then as I’m getting now. So I’ve delightedly joined now :slight_smile:

My Widex dream 330 served me OK until today, but on second thought, it wasn’t that good plus I wasn’t working for big periods of time so not hearing everything wasn’t a problem that I’d notice.

Came 2017 and we moved to Germany (from Croatia), and I didn’t speak German nor I’ve used spoken English much in my life. So although I had just several bad days in Croatia until I got tougher and embraced yet another aid that I have (wearing glasses since 8), coming here smashed me profoundly. I felt deaf, dumb, unable - completely and utterly disabled and that affected my mental health as well as my confidence and feeling that I’m able to work at all. Never thought that that move with connected experiences could crush me like that.

Last year I’ve tried working, but even though one on ones were okish, meetings brought me almost to the tears with how poor I could understand people. Yeah, their English isn’t perfect and they really mumble, but I felt utterly lost, my mental health got new hits, not fun.

This year I went to some shop for advice on spare parts for Widex and hearing checkup, and we decided to try custom molds. I feel that I got somewhat louder sound, but having omnidirectional mic turned on, Widex would catch so many noisy things, you know when quiet living room isn’t that quiet. Having one good ear, hearing that much noise on the right side just made me pull out the HA.

  • I’m still not sure if custom molds made it overall better or worse, or if they’re at all good advice for my loss. I suspect that I have dead region on 125 and 250, but it could be that it’s really on around 80 dB, didn’t see ENT yet here.

Then we talked a bit about new technology, and I was suggested Phonak Audeo Marvel 70, as it’s the only one that has direct android stream, plus direct connection with roger select microphone, as one option to see if I can get more and better hearing out of it.

And oh my, I’m astonished how streaming is incredibly better. I could hear youtuber breathe in before next part of the sentence :rofl: Ok, HA isn’t adjusted yet, we just had one proper fitting.

And now questions just keep piling up, and no matter how much I use search and google, I keep getting more questions than I’m able to find answers for :rofl:

  • I would like to go down the route of self adjusting the HA, currently stopped at figuring out how to find original and not fake Noah Link Wireless. Target I hope I could get from someone here :wink: I need win10 for that, right?
    My degree is math + compsci engineer, and I still enjoy learning. I’ve already bookmarked advice about courses to do. So that part doesn’t bother me.

    My audi seems ok, but he can never give me so much time to test and tweak the device, as I could do myself. I mean, he might try, but it’ll last years, and I’m not patient one when it comes to debugging :rofl:
    He already agreed that he won’t oppose to me modifying it and then coming to him for more adjustments if needed. And he’ll try vented domes as I had in Widex, and whatever I ask.

We didn’t though real ear measurement, his opinion is that that’s obsolete, and that what HA itself supports is even better.

  • I don’t know if that’s his opinion about my case or in general. But since I have one good ear I have something to compare with and say what I want / don’t want / have problems with, so I’m not sure if insisting on REM would give me anything useful at all?

Other questions that are still in the air, if someone can help with them as well:

  • My heart, by information I could find by now, is set on this combo M70 + roger select. From what I see here, many people like those aids, ok 90 version, but many of you need 2, and I got an impression that they’re practically the same, but 90 are better when you need two.

    So, what I want in a HA, must haves:

    • regular calls, voip calls (so zoom, wapp…) and media streaming, definitely; android compatibility without buying new phone (I have S8)
    • tv connectivity and who know what else there might be
    • 312 batteries
    • speech clarity, not only stereo as with Widex mainly
    • ability to follow people during meetings, video calls, networking events on conferences and similar, so ‘speech from that one person in noise of many speaking’

    Nice to haves:

    • app that can transcribe calls made by those voip apps (maybe some independent provider?)
  • Is there any other combo you’d recommend? What gadgets would I need then?

  • Is this Roger really the best mic there is or are there other manufacturers with theirs of comparable quality?

    For those who are maybe not familiar with it, Roger select comes also with dock for tv, plus adapter for phone, I didn’t catch that from looking their promo info.

Hubby made per my instructions adapter that splits 3.5 aux+mic to one same plus another only aux, since I couldn’t find that type to buy. Initial testing looks good.
I’m waiting for taotronics bluetooth headphones with mic to test them together with HA and see how that goes without wires.
Will post updates if someone’s interested.

Thanks for any 2 cents :wink:

Edit: I have P receiver, RIC version, don’t know how big air vent is, looks like around 0.7mm what I think I could measure with my calipers.

Edit2:

  • Roger select or roger table mic? If I got it correctly, select is newer so better, but can’t be combined into network as table mic can? Or there is a way?

  • How to adjust roger select, will noah link wireless + target sw cover that too or I need something else?

Edit 3: oh yeah, I’m 37yo now, was 31 when hearing was lost, so I’d definitely say that I dare to ask for more today and do myself than back then.

Hi there! I have worn Widex for nearly 25 years and have an unprecedented level of hearing with my Evoke 440 IP customs. Did you have the sensogram redone after the custom moulds were fitted? This must be done or the frequencies won’t match your prescription as they should. You may also need a new hearing test. If these aren’t performed you could lose a lot of speech comprehension. I can hear everything around a noisy restaurant table/public announcements/friends/meetings etc etc and music streaming via com-dex is awesome-so many lyrics I have never heard before. My son has Evoke 440 F2s-rics with custom tips. When he changed to custom tips if the sensogram hadn’t been re-done they would’ve been too loud and bass too much. He went from 90-100% speech comprehension with custom tips and new sensogram. REM doesn’t work with the Widex set-up. I lost my fitter and tried a high st dispenser. He set them up with REM and my speech comprehension dropped to around 60%. Widex have a very sophisticated system where by doing the sensogram, feedback calibration and selecting the vent size it calculates the most accurate set up and gives an amazing level of hearing. Good luck with your situation.

Finally! Another compsci introvert to type to! Woohoo! :slight_smile:

For me, the benefit of custom molds vs. open fit was all about ensuring that there was a single source of sound. I found the competition between a natural sound, and the same sound that was processed, jarring. I was never able to get used to hearing the same thing twice. Custom molds made a huge difference in my ability to understand speech. That said, your unilateral loss makes it inevitable that you’ll be experiencing the same sounds processed and unprocessed, but I’d still think you would find the sonic isolation that molds give you beneficial.

Roger stuff? I love it. It’s expensive and worth every penny. I have Pens, a Select, and a couple of Mic 2s. As you noted, the big difference between the Select and the Mic 2 is the Mic 2’s networking ability. I use two of them in our big boardroom, but for smaller meetings I usually use a Pen or a single Mic 2. My select goes mostly unused, but when I can go back to restaurants, I’ll be dusting it off.

No programming required for the Roger stuff, although if you purchase something from eBay you may have to upgrade the firmware. Google “Phonak Roger Updater” and you’ll find what you need.

REM appears to be a touchpoint around these parts. I don’t see the utility of it, TBH, but there are dozens who do. I submit that it’s a good troubleshooting tool.

For all your telephony needs you can’t beat a Phonak TV Connector. They’re cheap (relatively), fast to react to input, and of reasonable fidelity. I use TV Connectors with my office and home PCs and use a Roger Pen with my various laptops. If you set the TV Connector to automatically connect when it receives a signal, you’ll only be disturbed for incoming calls. The Marvels work great as a Bluetooth headset for an Android phone, but I haven’t had much luck pairing them directly to a PC.

For meetings you can’t beat Roger. Without that little piece of tech I would have had to change careers.

Don’t discount the Roger Pen. It’s the unloved member of Roger’s stable, but the Pen’s ability to act as a ‘point it at who you want to listen to’ device is surprisingly useful. Nonetheless, if I could only choose one Roger device it would be a Select. But then I’d cheat and go purchase a Pen for next to nothing on eBay.

Don’t forget to check out the Self Fitting and Adjustment category on HT: Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY] - Hearing Aid Forum - Active Hearing Loss Community

I’m curious. Do you find it confusing having multiple sources for the same sound or has your brain become used to it?

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Thanks for your reply @tinkyp
Yeah, many times, with each hardware change, on both Widex and Phonak, whatever it’s called there.
And first thing we have to do is to start tweaking it a lot (both changing the look of the curve and general adding volume to all of them), since that what algorithm gives by default isn’t anything useful.

Plus since I have one ear good, I don’t think that I’d get with some special REM equipment anything better than I can get now? I mean, I compare my two ears, and whine all the time and describe what’s wrong with the sound and we try to make it better.

If I understand correctly, REM’s main function is to test if HA are working as advertised / seen on screen. I mean, I don’t care what’s on the screen, I care that I hear words I need.

But, I do have one big but - even though device has many channels, this and several previous audis would change several at once, make them louder or so. Would doing one by one make any difference? I asked but was told that from what I’ve complaining about, no. But still, neither German nor English are my native languages, and even in native languages I can’t always express what’s wrong with the sound. That’s one of the reason why I’d like to tinker on my own.

Hey Alvin! Glad to have people from similar background here :computer: All those Radio related masters on DIY forum made me wonder where the ordinary tech people are :wink:

Thanks for your huge reply, I’ll reread it few times.

With Widex and those tulip domes (cone with two cuts on opposite sides) I got the best sound out of it, but I can’t recall that I noticed sound being double. But still, when I’m testing it, it’s just ‘weird sound’, I wasn’t paying attention to details, so obviously my brain didn’t have a problem with it, and when I’m wearing it, it was mostly for having stereo and be able to hear that that car is coming from my right side, and not left. Close encounter with one car (just startled me) made me rethink idea that hearing rehabilitation alone should be enough for me.

Now with Phonak’s I’ll try to pay more attention (was told not to mix those two, to give brain a chance to properly test this one).

Ok, so Roger family is definitely worth its money.
I was joking that during job offer negotiation I’ll ask for roger select, but then, I need help with interviews as well. But I might ask for those table mics :smiley:

I just started researching those things, am a bit confused which can what. Official site isn’t properly informational, that’s why I registered here and started bookmarking topics :rofl:

Now I have to check what’s TV connector… I mean, this select came with that dock, and it streams sound (optic cable > roger select then bt > HA)
What can this TV connector do more/better?

Long shot, do you have any information should this Roger work on Linuxes? I mean, it’s bt, so it should? For target I’m already ready to buy win 10 (or whichever is needed) :rofl: Ok, for private things I’m on phone mostly, pulled up laptop just bc of this forum and ability to have many tabs :rofl:

Thanks once again :wink:

That sounds frustrating and disappointing for you that it sounds so “off” even from first set up. I only had issues when something had been missed like vent selection but you could see all this for yourself if you went the self programming option. I always say with changes to try a single change at a time as two changes mean you don’t know what helped & what may have made it worse. If by channels that is frequencies, they tend to adjust an area of frequencies-“S” sound being 2/3/4 k. But less is more and I didn’t need to adjust anything from the fitting but this only happened once I had a dispenser who followed protocol by the letter. Hopefully you have had some input from the rep, they like to check everything over if you are not getting satisfaction from it and provide another pair of eyes.

On the other side, when I lost my hearing, and realised that it was for life, and they kept saying that cells are dead (today I’m not 100% sure if they’re dead or just really damaged), so I made peace that I’ll never hear good.
Then started chasing the device and only Widex 330 was able to do something positive (lower were also bad), some other models I pulled out from my ear immediately how bad sound was and how were they completely unable to deliver non screeching ones, no matter the settings.
Like, if you squish the paper and it sounds like plastic cup, you know that’s it’s insanely wrong, of course, if you know ‘the right sound’ in the first place.

Testing this Marvel and hearing for the first time how streaming works, I’m definitely impressed. And after that meeting-anxiety-fiasco, I’m more inclined to Mickey Mouse sound but that I understand what they’re saying than to ‘hear it natural’. There’s nothing natural in my ear anyway :rofl:

Although, when I setup it on my own, I’ll probably have bunch of programs, so some could be ‘natural sound for enjoying nature’ while some other can be ‘survive in meeting’ :wink:

We’ll see.

I plan to cash out around 2500 eur for them + roger select to audi (unless I find out that I want even more gadgets :rofl:), but even though that amount of money definitely gives me right to bother him whenever (I mean, I would be ok with bothering him), it is I who don’t have patience to wait a week for next only 1h long appointment.

Also, I want to understand all features that HA can do, and no matter how much hours we spend talking, it’s definitely easier if I can try and test it myself, ‘what does this option really mean and do’, because he needs to know well many sw, I need only one and I have more time to research since I fit only myself.

He can explain to me and granted, he’s doing extremely good job.
But, lost in translation definitely happens all the time. We’re speaking German with help with English. I choose them because they have best reviews on google in several km radius, and they’re definitely patient and knowledgeable (they knew more than I, which is impressive, since sadly, I had experience of knowing much more), but still, they’re working on time restrictions (hour or maybe two in a week), while I have all the time in the world and normal testing situations vs their quiet office setting. Everything sounds better there but I still want to understand my hubby in our living room, I don’t care about understanding audi in his office. Although sometimes is practical not to hear everything :stuck_out_tongue:

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Ugh, can we all just agree that Phonak sucks when it comes to customer facing information? It’s like they’ve decided that their target audience is a demented ninety-year-old whose days consist of choosing what flavour pudding they would like with lunch.

I can’t see why the Roger digital audio functionality wouldn’t work with Linux, although admittedly my Linux laptop is connected using analog audio via the 3.5 connector. The digital connection utility is likely more a function of your hardware than the OS.

Here’s what I’ve learned about Roger hardware. There are three form factors readily available for non-educational client: Pen, Select and Mic 2.

The Pen comes in two variants: Pen and EasyPen. Those two pens each come in two more variants, the Pen iN and the EasyPen iN. The Pen has Bluetooth and the ability to lock microphone directionality to one of three directions - lanyard, table, and ‘point at what you want to listen to’, whereas the EasyPen lacks Bluetooth and relies on an accelerometer to set its microphone orientation. Each iN variant includes two RogerDirect receiver licenses. The Roger Pen iN also drops Bluetooth.

The Select can select or deselect any of its six directional microphones, conversely it does a reasonable job of doing noise cancellation on its own. Two variants again - the Select and the Select iN. As with the Pen, the Select iN drops the Bluetooth but includes two RogerDirect receiver licenses.

The Mic 2 is slightly different than the Pen and the Select insofar as you can network them. Truthfully, you can network multiple Pens or Selects, but the minute you do, n-1 of them will be put in lanyard mode. So, if you had four Selects in a network, one could sit in the middle of the table, whereas the other three would have to be worn by people in the room. Phonak says that multiple Pens and Selects can’t be simultaneously in Table Mode for ‘technical reasons’. Yup, their website actually says, ‘technical reasons’. Good grief. If I had to guess I would think the Mic 2s are able to communicate with each other in such a way that noise cancellation uses all the available microphones but the Select and Pen don’t have that ability. In short, networked Selects or Pens can only localize sound by device, whereas networked Mic 2s can localize sound by network.

But like I said, that’s just my guess.

With respect to the TV Connectors you’re correct, their functionality is a subset of the Select’s functionality. That said, the TV Connectors are cheap, and I can leave them set up and forget about them. I’m pretty much absent minded - when I get focused on something, I won’t remember to do stuff like hook up my Roger device to my PC. Using the TV Connector makes my life easier because I don’t ever have to think about them. :slight_smile:

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You are getting some really good information. Getting into self programming might be just what you need. I had Target on Windows 7 and now on Windows 10. Another thing to mention is your reverse slope hearing loss is very different from most of us posting to you. Your hearing aid fitting will be different and as you have seen, more difficult. Balancing your left and right ears will also be a challenge and it will take you time to acclimate to those changes.

Phonak makes fine aids as does other manufacturers. The Roger equipment is very nice too. If you can get your one aid tuned right you may find less need for remote microphones. Noisy restaurants, boomy offices and large hard surfaced rooms are difficult for all of us.

Good luck

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Yeah I mean, they have advanced gadgets and then they don’t explain what’s the purpose. Ok they probably rely on sellers to pick ‘the best option’, but you know, if that seller fails to explain to me that there’s three gadgets that could be better and mention only one, then they lose money for those other 2. Bc when I find out, chances are I’ll buy them used from ebay and not new from audi. Oh well.

When we’re at that, do you maybe know where I can see when exactly was this thing released? I thought audeo marvel came up I think end 2018 and people started buying them last year, but then I found some comments from 2011 mentioning marvels?! I’m confused?

Wait what?!
What exactly means ‘it drops bluetooth’, or better said - which version is better to have? Or what’s the purpose of bluetooth there? To connect to HA or to connect to some other device?

Since I’ll go with audeo Marvel, which supports rogers directly, then I don’t need those licences, no?

Or it’s the same device but can connect to either, depending what you pay?
My device has that iN written on it and it works, so, again, me confused.

I did ask about table mic, which is I guess this mic2 you mention. And was told that it’s old tech, and that select is better for what I want - meetings.
Again, lost in translation could happen so that I didn’t express my needs correctly.

From what you say, it looks like select is for small meetings of 4-6 team members around round table, or small dinner party, while mic2 is for those meetings with 10+ people around looong table?

I think I’ll quit on spot if they put me in such ‘meeting’, so I guess select is still ok for me? Or?
Does it make sense to ask company to buy them if situation occurs? And can then several hearing impaired people use them (in different meetings), or it’s just for one person once paired?

Or I’ll just start collecting rogers bc I don’t want to share? :rofl:

TV connector communicates directly with HA, no need like in select case, to turn on and put select device into that dock? And how it connects with TV?
Sorry to bother you, but you know much more than I can dig out from their official site :bowing_woman:

For the rest I’m eternally thankful, and I’ll need some time to absorb all those infos :rofl:
Thanks :slight_smile:

Oh, so it might work on older win? That’s nice, I have those somewhere :rofl: Thanks for info :+1:

Yeah, I’m totally aware that many people have different hearing loss and requirements, I even asked audi how many people in his life he fitted with low freq loss, and he said hundreds. Even though I know not all low freq losses are the same in terms of needs and wants, he has some experience, even though it collides with info I’m finding around here. Like ‘use open domes, forget low freq and focus on other to work with what you have’ with which he disagrees but is willing to test on me later on.

Also, I’ve found that people with reverse slope mention signia nx or something, widex, even oticon. When I asked him about that, and what would be his next choice for me, he said resound. I think he’s still fixed on my phone OS and not sound type. Ok, he said that today it’s not that important bc with any you can accomplish any. However, people here with reverse slope loss and in other places do mention different providers having different sound feeling nevertheless.

That’s what stops me a bit from immediately buying noahlink wireless and seeing for myself, bc I’m not sure what other providers offer.

Maybe you have better info since you’re here for quite some time - is roger really the best out there for mic-gadgets? Is there another family of gadgets worth looking into?

How much hassle is to have intermediary device, I believe that before mfi / mfa those devices were necessity for everyone, no?
If I understand correctly, it’s just one device that hangs on the neck, but still, it varies which tech it uses to connect to HA?

Even though I’m getting and finding good info about phonak and roger, I’m still in the dark about what other options are there, if we forget about ‘direct streaming phone - HA’ and include ‘streaming calls and media from phone to the device to HA’.

I have no clue even if those older type of connections, with using another device, can even stream media and calls, or only calls?

That would definitely help with decision. I tried to ask audi, but I felt a bit lost by his answer, since he didn’t answer me directly but said that today people choose HA, beside the budget, with OS in mind and connectivity they want, and since I’m android user he recommended this setup bc ‘having intermediary device is old school nuisance’ (my paraphrasing).
I did say ‘ok, but let’s forget direct direct streaming’, and I’m not happy with this answer since I still have no clue what else is out there :rofl:

Granted, my only several dozen hours of research isn’t enough to cover it all, so I might stumble upon those info, sometime, somewhere. However, I’d like it sooner than later, bc if eg this weekend I realise that phonak A M70 + roger select and company is the best tech out there for me (because I’d rather have speech understanding of hearing mickey mouse than nice sound, since I’m not big music listener anyway), I’ll buy that on Monday and start tweaking on my own, and not wait weeks until final decision is made bc of my audi’s schedule. Yes I know, I should be grateful to even have a meeting bc of corona but I’m not feeling grateful if we’re talking about 3k euros I’ll pay for that ‘opportunity’, corona or not, it’s all business after all.
Plus until I buy the device I guess I don’t have ability to have those remote sessions for setup at all, so that’s another reason why I’d rather buy sooner than later. Yeah, Monday is exaggeration of course, but I’d be really happy to decide during the next week, and not drag that through months :unamused:

@Alvin maybe you can help me to figure out what else is out there? You seemed like person who did research a lot and decided for roger family for a reason, so I’d like to hear that reason :smiley:

I have been hoping one of the pro members would join this thread. We have a few that help us big time.

Your reverse slope loss would need a custom ear mold in my opinion. Then the aid would need to be tuned in a fashion to balance with your good ear. That is strictly my unprofessional opinion. I also believe most any modern hearing aid could be used. They all can be tuned with great detail.

As far as remote microphones, from reading this forum Phonak with their Roger system or their PartnerMic are liked. Also the Resound aids with the MultiMic are liked. These two remote systems are regarded as the better remote systems.
Using a T-Coil is another route many use. Buying hearing aids with a T-Coil gives you an added choice for hearing in particular settings.

@Zebras, @focusandearnit, @Don, @efigalaxie, @MDB, @RogerPM
These members have good knowledge of remote microphones and how to use them and set them up for different purposes. Maybe they will chime in on this conversation.

Hopefully you will get some good unbiased information.
Good luck

That was the opinion of audi as well, so I have it and I didn’t test Phonak without it so far. On widex I got it as well and I liked old domes better than that mold, but we maybe didn’t setup all details - we switched to testing Phonak instead. On my request since I was eager to see what new tech brought up and I like what I saw so far.

Awesome, thanks! I’ll look that up as well.

For T-Coil I was told that that’s lower quality sound?

Thanks for pinging other members and thank you for your 2 cents, it really helps to have people say things directly to you than to dig around so much without any direction.

I don’t mind biased information, I appreciate opinion and experience. This is not amazon and bunch of reviews paid by who know who, here are people who really used something. Their use case or experience can or won’t match mine, but it will definitely help to figure out options :smiley:

Don’t really have much to add to Raudrive’s comments. Regarding how much hassle it is to wear a device around one’s neck: You’ll get a variety of opinions from no hassle at all to a huge burden.

New to this thread, but bits and pieces: So if you have Marvel’s and a Select iN, you do not need additional licenses. The licenses come with the iN version. I believe what was meant by “dropping the bluetooth” was that Roger devices don’t rely on Bluetooth, but on a proprietary system.

If I remember correctly, Table Mic is great if you have a big conference table and want to use multiple microphones. They can be linked together.

Agree that if understanding speech in groups is priority, Marvel with Roger devices is best bet, although they’re pricy.

Reverse slopes are challenging to fit. There’s a good video from Oticon that talks about challenging losses to fit and includes reverse slope.

Enough for now.

Regarding TV connector: You just plug into your TV and a power source. Not sure what kind of a TV connection–likely some options. Using the TV connector also does not use Bluetooth so it does not require one of your two possible Bluetooth pairings. TV connector can also be used to stream from

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Yes T-coil is theoretically lower quality as it’ll pick up electrical noise from other sources like fluorescent lights. However, in practice, I haven’t noticed this and you may not - depends on each individual’s loss (granted my in practice had been use of my office phone which had an inductive loop in the receiver, and it worked amazing for me).

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Here’s an article that has some discussion on reverse slope losses (called rising audiograms in the article) My take from it is that with these kinds of losses, it’s more of whatever the client wants than trying to follow a prescription. Sounds like most want less or no low frequency gain (even though that’s where the loss is) and some high frequency gain even though technically there’s no loss there. With this in mind, custom molds vs open domes is also up to user. If one wants a lot of low frequency gain, then custom molds make sense. If not, one may appreciate the open fit of open domes. https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/complex-versus-standard-fittings-part-21836-21836

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Thanks @MDB and @phobos512

I’m reading a lot beside this topic so I’ll definitely need some time to sort through all of that.

All things point into direction of the combo mentioned here as being only way for significant upgrade aka value for money for me.

I’ll just check if I have to pay more for t-coil version, since I’d rather have that option than not.
Like, I’d like to go to the theater once again in my life and similar places, and maybe even some conferences could support t-coil, who knows. Until today I didn’t knew what it is exactly anyway.

I found that reseound’s mic can catch t-coil intended signals, but I can’t see if any roger mics can, so it looks like only option is to have HA with t-coil.

Also, since select is so touch-sensitive I’m not sure if I can use it like I’d use pen - to direct towards someone. I mean, I’ve tried and it’s hard to not touch something after and mess up what you’re listening. So it looks like pen could be useful too, as @Alvin already pointed out.

Can they work together, so select + pen where select catches everything and I point pen or even give pen to someone?

Or some other mics is for that? (I admit, from other tabs to this one I forgot all the correct names)

And prices here are insane :frowning_face: (2500 eur table mic, 1000 select, 900 pen, 200 tv thing) I mean, ebay.de doesn’t have real used stuff, only new, and I’m not sure if I’d risk usa sellers now, I don’t want such expensive package get lost

T-coils are interesting. I’d say for most, they’ll never be used, but if you’ve got a use for it, it will be very handy. I’ve got one on my hearing aid but have never used it. I think you mentioned wanting 312 battery size. This will mean relatively poor battery life. It will also mean if you get a Marvel with 312 and Tcoil it will be somewhat bigger. The Marvel in 13 battery size comes with T-coil and isn’t much bigger. Yes, Roger tech is expensive. If money is a bit of an issue, Resound Quattro hearing aids and a MultiMic really wouldn’t be a bad option. The Resound wouldn’t allow direct streaming to your S8, but would to a S9 or higher or Pixel 3 or above.

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Thanks for more food for thoughts :smile:

I’m mostly just whining about money. I mean, it IS expensive. Hubby and I agreed that we’ll buy things that’ll help me be included and understand, so we can afford it’s just that I’d rather pay much less :smiley:
That being said, I’ve just checked ebay and there are two sellers, one from GB another from Cyprus that sell NEW HAs, and it’d be like 500+ eur less for M90 than I have to pay for M70… So I’m having second thoughts. It’s not small difference :frowning: But also, I don’t know if those devices are locked somehow (ok, I can check that, currently I’m pondering ‘is it fair’ vs ‘it’s just a business’).

I do appreciate the time of audi, however, I know he can’t do the best for me nowhere near soon enough so I definitely plan to go to DIY route. And explaining things IS hard even on native tongue, let alone the language I’m still learning a lot.

And since we’re in quiet room, setting it up there just isn’t enough, and we’re not doing neither speech audiometry nor anything else, since I don’t speak German that well, he said my results would be poor anyway so we didn’t even try.

About battery life, price diff between rechargeable and 312 is so big that I can use 1 battery per day for 5 years and then it’ll finally cost me the same, so I didn’t compared anymore, eg would 13 make more sense. I’m wearing glasses and this 312 size is light and sits on top and between ear and glasses handle and doesn’t bother me. I assume neither 312T or 13T would be that big of a difference to ordinary 312?

Something to think about is when you do get an aid properly tuned for you, will you have a need for remote devices. But, to be careful, buy a hearing aid that will support the remote device you would buy if it were needed. To me that would be either Phonak or Resound.

And, if you decide to go the self programming route, do your homework before buying anything. Different aids use different programming devices. They have to match to function properly.
And buying a used aid can save you thousands in money. Some of us have been doing this for many years.