Linear Octave Frequency Transposition - LOFT

Um bongo, your veil is thinning.

A lot of research is done on all kinds of technology, but it is all meaningless until one of the manufacturers decides to buy into it and incorporate it into an actual product available for consumer use.

gciriani,

The point is, with your loss, worrying about frequency lowering is unnecessary. Your highs are not so bad that a good non-LOFT hearing device cannot compensate for them. I think of it like a tool in the bag. Just because I HAVE a hammer doesn’t mean the hammer is the best option.

Thanks everybody for all your pointers. They are extremely useful for newcomers like me :slight_smile:

Wait for somebody to bring out a working 2.4v product with back2back hifi receivers and a 16Khz usable bandwidth you mean?

I agree the that it takes one firm to champion the tech direction.

find an audiologist you can trust

Widex, Widex, Widex, Widex, Widex, Widex, Widex…Widex! Etc

Do I get a dollar for that even though I’ve never worn them?

beamforming is not the answer. Does someone with normal hearing have beamforming?

Justin, with my loss do I need Sound Recover (the Phonak name for frequency lowering technology which must be the LOFT)?

Have Phonak Audeo V90 - 10 size.

Had a 3-hour fine tuning session with Audi today but it seemed with switching off Auto Recover the result is significantly diminished in the high-frequency range where my main loss is. Also double checked by REM.

Have open dome on right ear / closed dome on left. I have a feeling I want open dome on left too but since higher loss target unreachable with open dome (I want open not to block natural sound). Audi even suggests custom mold (more closed than “closed”) for better results but I oppose…

MERCI!

According to the study below, Phonak uses NLFC (non-linear frequency compression), which is different from LOFT (linear octave frequency transposition).

McDermott HJ. A technical comparison of digital frequency-lowering algorithms available in two current hearing aids. PLoS ONE. 2011;6(7):e22358. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0022358.

The more I read the studies, the more I get convinced that LOFT makes sense even for somebody who has a marginal loss like me. I would like to explain my rationale. I have had tinnitus for 30 years now, but it never bothered me the way that it seems to be bothering some individuals. I know that it drives some people crazy, but that’s not my case; it’s just there covering certain frequencies, with well defined tones.

If one reads the studies that I posted, it becomes apparent that amplification is not solving the problem. The article clearly states that if there is a problem discriminating between two nearby frequencies, just amplifying the same two frequencies will not solve the discrimination because the the ear has a problem telling them apart at low volume and at high volume. Therefore the only solution is moving both frequencies to a range where they can be discriminated. Moving everything by one octave is the way our hearing works: if I play music and in the page of the score I move my hands to play the piano on the nearby octave, or two octaves, everybody will still think I’m playing the same music (and it is).

The other huge point made in the OP article (did any body here read it, instead of beating each other?), is that the research points out to the fact that 81% of participants had benefits on their tinnitus problem chronically (that means for a long time). So if I can get rid of some portion of my tinnitus, then perhaps my brain will not create the whistling that I hear all the time. Will that further improve my hearing situation and discrimination? I don’t know, but I intend to try.

Well, you may then like a 45 record played at 33 1/3rd. That move things down in frequency too.

It’s a different example, which risks to cloud one’s understanding of the concept. First of all a one-octave difference would imply playing the record at 22.5 rpm. Second if you play a 45 rpm record at 33 rpm, you not only decrease the frequency, but you also slow down the speed of replay, and that’s the source of your feeling of distortion. If instead you transpose the playing frequency by one octave, you are not slowing down the the speed of replay, and therefore you do not get that distortion.

If instead you transpose the playing frequency by one octave, you are not slowing down the the speed of replay, and therefore you do not get that distortion.

But do you get a flute that sounds like a bassoon?

Most people fitted with a Non-LOFT hearing aids report they get at least some benefit from their tinnitus - bear in mind that tinnitus does respond to other stimuli as well, so shifting and dropping bits of noise in where it shouldn’t be could ‘distract’ the user from their usual tinnitus cycle too. What I’m driving at is that it’s not the LOFT, but the introduction of ANY sound in this area.

Amplification WORKS for hearing losses like yours - people just like to add more ingredients to the pie to charge more for it - most of these marginal technologies have their day as the ‘big new thing’ then get integrated into the feature set or dropped. Amplification does help a considerable number of people with their tinnitus too.

By all means try some kit with it in - but don’t hang your hat on something that has the potential to mess up your already reduced hearing resolution.

I recently moved to the Trax 42. I really didn’t understand frequency moving until I set my security alarm the first night. What used to be a high pitched tone was now a louder mid pitched sound. I was kind of stunned by it; but then the light came on and I understood what had happened. I had noticed that the voices on the TV seemed a bit deeper; but hadn’t figured out why. It is a rather interesting technology. I am liking it so far.

You might ask your audiologist if they made a frequency shift. You were loosing base and mids that were amplified int the prescription.

They definitely did a frequency shift Ken. I am surprised that when I was trialing the KS6 that there wasn’t one also.

Interesting to know. Looks like you had no learning curve hearing the lower tones either. Nice!

I thought that it would make music sound differently; but it is just a tad deeper. It really sounds like I now am listening through larger better speakers. :o)

Thanks for your testimonial; I think it validates the research papers.