KS10 reverts to default volume in 60 minutes ... can this be altered? any work around? Issue resolved

Hearing Aids
#1

Edit 10.27.2021 1055AM t o provide summary and resolution of thread that way you don’t need to read the whole thread.

  1. With new KS10 rcvd 10 days ago, the very experienced fitter incorrectly told me that if I made a manual adjustment (program or volume level) to HAs, after 60 minutes they’d revert to Autosense program and to the default/0/zero volume level. While this is incorrect information, and because HAs connected via BT were also giving an intrusive and annoying aduio alert about every 60 minutes, my original thread title was “KS10 reverts to default volume in 60 minutes … can this be altered? any work around? how to protest this to Costco/Phonak?” Both of these “issues” are resolved for me and never were Costco/Phonak/KS10 issue.

  2. KS10 is designed/programmed (as of Oct. 2021) as follows: If you choose a program other than Autosense (and also if you manually adjust the volume of that program, or adjust the volume of Autosense), KS10 does NOT override those user choices. If you choose to move back to Autosense then the manually set volume you had chosen is also retained. This is what I personally prefer - let me as the user decide what I want. While I prefer to be in Autosense most of the time, when I decide on something else, I don’t want programming to over ride me.

  3. By turning off even more audio notification alerts, I no longer get (about @ 60 minutes) an annoying/intrusive audio alert. As Members pointed out, many but not all of the audio alerts heard in HAs are controlled by the smartphone (for me iPhone) and not by EasyLine app or KS10. Audio alerts are still sometimes generated when BT streaming is stopped.

  4. Another thing I had to do … As @Oz-Tack had inquired whether I was using EasyLine app 3.0.3 which I assumed was the case. I had only downloaded app 3 weeks ago (many weeks after its release around mid-August), however my app was using v3.0.2. Release notes for EL v3.0.3 clearly state: " -Fixed issue of Hearing Aids reverting to Automatic after Bluetooth event for KS10.0 devices" Note that within the EasyLine app (within Legal Notices) it shows Version 3.0.3 the text line below that still shows 2021-04-01 which is NOT the release date of the updated v3.0.3

  5. Some Member comments thought that the issue for me was out of date firmware which seems to have nothing to do with my originally reported issue. User can not see what firmware their KS10 is on; it can only be viewed in the Target programming software; firmware can not be updated in a remote session with audi or fitter. A google search was unsuccessful in determining when the latest KS10 firmware was released. Phonak released a firmware update for Paradise during summer (early July?) 2021, but no one on forum knows whether Costco/KS10 also had updated firmware. Siince my KS10s were 1st activated Oct. 19, 2021, they should have firmware that is current.

  6. While much of the summary above about KS10 and EasyLine probably also applied to Phonak Paradise and myPhonak app, there might be differences in behavior and/or an update to one might not occur at the same time as a similar update to the other. this clearly can lead to confusion in reading Member comments if it is not clear whether they are using Paradise, or its “cousin” KS10 HAs.

  7. As with any problem solving (or trouble shooting) I should have determined early on whether:
    Smartphone had latest OS (in my case for iPhone); whether KS10 had latest firmware (not actually something user can do directly); and if EasyLine app is being used whether the app is latest version; and if one has recently updated any of these whether there are known bug reports.

Thanks to all members for their patient in put to solving this for me.

=========================
Below is much of what my original post stated and to which Members were responding in the comments below.

Experienced HA user; an adult who knows how to use a manual volume control to adjust output as a decision for which I am happy to be responsible. Just got KS10s a few days ago which I generally like. It seems:

  1. That for Autosense program user/manual volume adjustments are reverted by their programming to the default (zero) level after 60 minutes accompanied by an intrusive and annoying audio alert sound.
    Is there a way to defeat this behavior in Target software?
    Is this the same, if one is NOT in autosense? Any other work arounds?

  2. If this corporate decision to over ride what a user wants is something that I/we are “stuck with,” any idea of email address for Costco (and perhaps Phonak as I’d imagine that the Paradise behaves similarly) in hope of attempting to launch a major user protest movement by sending emails to them. Historically has any user complaint from many users actually been addressed (in a “reasonable” time frame") by app or firmware update?
    Goal: Give user option to turn off this behavior; or give all users opportunity to adjust volume and set it themself as to when the volume would return to the default (and whether there’d be any audio alert of the change). I’d be happy to sign my life away to Costco … sign an NDA; sign that I and my heirs for the next two centuries would hold harmless Costco/Phonak for any volume impacts on my hearing, my investment accounts, and hold harmless all corporate and other Costco/Phonak successors in perpetuity!!

I find the above even more annoying than software that you click on Exit or Quit and it asks Do you really want to quit?

[Edit 10.24.2021 10:02AM PDT Since this behavior/issue might not be attributted to Costco/Phoank but to iPhone, I have edited originally title which was {KS10 reverts to default volume in 60 minutes … can this be altered? any work around? how to protest this to Costco/Phonak?}. However it is my Costco fitter who had indicated that manual volume adjustments would revert to default after 60 minutes, I am still not sure the source of issue. Will update this 1st post when I get clear info and a solution so that Members would not need to read entire thread.]

1 Like
#2

As a 20 plus year hearing aid user I much prefer to put the aids on in the morning, take them out at night, and never touch them in the interim. I never adjust the volume. I couldn’t when I didn’t wear aids so why do it now.

Have you looked into the root cause of why you’re changing the volume? While I can appreciate your frustration and hope you find a solution, I’d be looking to understand what was causing me to want to change the volume and work with my fitter to address that issue.

2 Likes
#3

Have you even mentioned this to the Costco audiologist yet? Why do you want to protest? Why don’t you just tell them?

I also never change the volume on my own Phonaks.

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#4

I’m pretty sure this is caused by your phone and not by the Phonaks. Turn off all notifications in your phone.
Every time the phone chimes, the HA switches to the streaming program and delivers the alert tone to the HA.
Then it switches back to the autosense program with its volume.

1 Like
#5

This is not an intrinsic KS10 issue. It will be related to signals coming from your phone as @sterei mentioned above. I have NOT got them paired with my phone for audio (I use the Easy line app only and pair them with an ipad for streaming content) - I have never experienced what you describe happening.
Before you go writing to “Phonak” - technically I think they are made by Sonova as mentioned here…


and I would talk to your Costco Audi first… just my 2 cents :wink:
2 Likes
#6

I’ve read that for the Phonak Paradise there have been problems with user programs and controls that were supposedly fixed by a firmware update fairly recently. Check with your HIS at Costco about this as far as for the cousin KS10’s.

Additionally, when that firmware update is done there are some user issues that have come up. Dr. Olson has a blurb about that here:

I’ve no idea whether this relate specifically to your problem, but the standard procedure with an issue like this is always to first check for updates and that they are properly configured.

#7

Thanks all for input, and I will bring it up with Costco fitter at my followup appt. He is very experienced but we are new to each other. It is actually fitter who told me that manual volume adjustments revert to default level after 60 minutes. I didn’t think much about that when he mentioned it as there was tons more he was pointing out. Per @sterei it seems like Costco fitter might be incorrect as sterei indicates that the reason for change is smartphone providing an audio notification.

I have turned off most but not all audio notifications. While writing this I got one audio notification; the program had already been on autosense with volume reduced and after audio notification the HAs did not revert to default/zero volume. I will track more closely what leads to the volume change (triggered by ______; or simply time based as fitter indicated; or ____).

========
@jay_man2 While I typically have used HAs and allowed their intelligence (autosense for KS10/Phonak) to do the driving 95% of the time, there are for me numerous times when I want to over ride well adjusted HAs. For 1st time in my exp., fitter has enabled frequency lowering. During these 1st few days with freq lowering and new HAs my brain is a bit fatigued by all of the input. Thus I have wanted a lower than default volume and then ramping it up for several hours a day as I adjust. With HAs at default volume typing on traditional keyboard gives very noticeable mechanical clicking; might end up with a soft key keypad to deal with that aspect of things if indeed the fitter set default volume will be best for speech intelligibility.
On a more ongoing basis when watching TV with someone and not streaming to my HAs it makes sense for them to adjust TV audio output to their liking and for me to then adj. HAs. I have two other situations where I would probably consistently want a different volume; and might ask to treat each of these as a separate program, however my own preference is to have Autosense and as few other programs as possible so there are fewer choices to cycle through.

Again thanks all for your input, and in interim will experiment with turning off all audio notifications, and alert my employer of how to get my attention when something is truly urgent/important.

1 Like
#8

Thanks for explaining your use of the volume controls. I hope you find a solution to this issue soon. Please keep us updated.

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#9

Thanks for that and I will check with fitter at scheduled follow up appt. which will be remote.

Do you or anyone know whether a firmware update can be done remotely (versus in person).

#10

I can’t speak directly to Phonak, but ReSound and Jabra aids that need them can get firmware updates directly in the app. At least the iPhone app. I’m not sure about the Android version of the app.

#11

Thanks @mingus and @jay_man2, but expect that my firmware is the latest.
As far as I can tell from this forum and from Google search the Phonak firmware update was from about late April 2021. Since I got my Costco KS10s, five days ago I’d certainly expect that Costco would be very on top of any newer (within last 10 days) firmware update. Costco should certainly be motivated at corporate level to make sure that HAs they sell/trial to customers leave the store with the latest firmware to avoid extra work for fitters and frustration for customers. Nonetheless, I will check on the firmware with fitter.

#12

I checked this with my Phonak P90s. After streaming, they revert to the program that was enabled before streaming, including the volume setting. As far as I remember, this wasn’t the case before the last firmware update. I don’t know about the KS10, maybe the last firmware update for them hasn’t been released yet.
And one more suggestion: Why don’t you turn off Bluetooth on your phone for a few hours or so? That way you can definitely prove if it’s really the cause of the problem or not.

1 Like
#13

Thanks @sterei. Yes, I will turn off BT for an hour to determine whether when BT streaming or other BT use to HAs when BT ends triggers the result of volume change. In my one example below, it does not.

There are 3 things I am trying to determine: #A how are the KS10s desgined/programmed to operate; #B how are my KS10s functioning re: volume changes that are not manually chosen; #C how to get what I want - retain my manual volume adjustment without reverting.

Right now for #B, my KS10s do not operate as you described your Phonak P90s (after your firmware update): Namely …
I selected a saved custom program and manually changed its programmed volume; then
BT streamed audio, and then stopped that streaming, resulting
yes a reversion but NOT like you to the previous program, but to Autosense and yet retained the manually chosen volume (versus the default Autosense prog volume which is zero/0).

1 Like
#14

Hi Again,
as far as I am aware the two things you can’t do remotely are

  1. The feedback test (specifically told this by the Cotco Audi)
  2. Update the firmware (I THINK I was told this by the costco audi :smiley: )

I will experiment with my non-connected KS10s and report back wrt the volume issue…

1 Like
#15

@Oz-Tack Thanks for comments and for testing out the behavior of your HAs. Since I turned off some additional audio Notifications on iPhone, it is now quite rare that I am getting an annoyingly intrusive audio sound from HAs. Also a benefit to me is that so far HAs are retaining my manually adjusted volume AND this is true even when BT streaming ends.

I am 99.8% sure that my original complaint was not user error or user settings. While I can point to some changes that I have made in iPhone notifications, I am not yet convinced that I can control manual volume adjustments without it reverting to zero/0 default. Ideally I like to be able to do X and produce the undesired result, and then undo X, or do Y and have my desired result. Right now I am in a bit of the magical realm of … it is “suddenly working” but was not before.

It certainly seems that my Costco fitter was wrong in stating that in 60 minutes of elapsed time that manual volume adjustments revert to 0/default. He has 10 years of fitting exp. but his seeming incorrect info lowers my confidence in him. My trajectory seems toward DIY so fitter will become somewhat less vital.

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#16

Sounds like you don’t have the latest firmware if your Aids don’t revert back to your previous program after a notification.

That’s what the latest firmware helped.

@Edma

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#17

@Zebras and everyone I appreciate all of you trying to help and provide clear/useful information.

As I noted in comment 12 that when BT ends my KS10s reverts AND retains previously manually set volume, BUT unlike @sterei the reversion is to Automatic program and not to the program that was active before the BT streaming had happened. But @sterei is using Phonak P90; and based on @Zebras comment just prior to this one, I believe he also had Phonak HAs. If reversion is designed/programmed by Phonak to revert to both prior program and prior manually set volume for that program then either my HAs are not functioning properly or perhaps Costco has not updated its firmware as those with Phonak HAs like @sterei have only experienced this behavior after the June 2021 firmware update. It is conceivable to me that Costco might not be in any hurry to have its firmware be parallel to what Phonak has in its firmware, but I have no idea - perhaps Costco contracts with Phonak to create the Costco firmware as it does for the underlying hardware.

I also note:
Per this thread on forum (How to tell what firmware version - Phonak Paradise) Phonak updated firmware in USA in early June 2021. In that thread no one had any idea of what was changed or fixed or added as features.

KS10 (similar but not identical to Paradise 90) became available in April 2021. Our forum and google search does not indicate what was original firmware OR whether there was some update to it. Most do not think that the firmware is identical to Phonak P90 firmware.

Both forum and Phonak website indicate that user can not see what firmware they are on; can only be seen in Target software; and that firmware update can not be done remotely.

All of this motivates me more to get into DIY when I can make time.

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#18

I’d much prefer to put my hearing aids in and forget them too, however there are several times a day I adjust mine. My work environment is sometimes too noisy, so I turn em down. Sometimes I’m talking with someone who speaks very softly, so I turn em up. Etc.etc.

#19

I can confirm that with my KS10s and my setup (easyline paired only - not audio paired with iPhone) - I left them on autosense for 2.5 hours with increased volume from default - listened to music, silence, tv etc etc so autosense changed modes within itself - at no time was the volume reset to default.
No idea if that helps :smiley:

#20

@Oz-Tack Yes that helps quite a bit especially because no one else on this thread seems to have KS10 but rather have Phonak P90 (or similar).

The additional thing that would help is to do this pattern:

  1. In Easy Line choose any program than Autosense, and then manually adjust volume to something other than the zero/0 level.

  2. Keep with this program - probably only needs to be a minute or two (not your previous very thoroguh workout of Autosense in your prior comment).

  3. Listen to music or anything else that would (without your doing anything yourself) switch things to BlueTooth which should trigger EasyLine to move to the BT Streaming program. Listen for a minute or two. Then stop listening. This last action should have EL move out of the BT Streaming program.

  4. Now look at EasyLine and see what it shows:
    If it were my HAs it’d show the program being Autosense and the volume would be whatever I had set in step (1) above.

Those who have Phonak P90 AND have updated to the latest Phonak firmware made available early June 2021 report that for this step (4) not only would the volume be retained from step (1) but the program would also be from step (1) and thus they would NOT see things being reverted to Autosense.