In the testing phase with Oticon More 2

Hello everybody. I need a little help. I have total deafness in the right ear and moderate deafness in the left ear and I use Oticon OPN 1. Now I am in the testing phase with Oticon More 2 but, although I really like the sound, I feel that I am not hearing everything, it seems that noise reducer removes too much. For example, in the car I hear more the sound of my car and traffic without the device if I have it. In addition, everything is too low and the audiologist programmed the device with the same audiogram with which he programmed the OPN. It turns out that when I increase the More sound (on the phone) to 4 which is the maximum I hear even lower than with OPN at volume -2. My question is, does more reduce volume so much or is it bad programming? My audiologist is a bit of a bummer, if you can help me with what I have to ask, I thank you.

Hello back at you! I have been wearing More3 devices since 2 March 2021, and they have given me life-changing improvement over my old hearing aids, which were poorly programmed.

I can’t comment on the comparison to OPN hearing aids, however: I can tell you that More3 is giving me plenty of output power in both ears.

Could it be that your hearing loss has worsened since the audiogram upon which your audi is basing his/her adjustments?

In my case, my new HAs required 100dB receivers (increased from 85dB) to achieve the prescriptive values my audiologist was shooting for.

As has been discussed in other threads, compression settings can significantly affect the PERCEIVED LOUDNESS of the output the devices are delivering to your ears. Perhaps your new aids are adjusted to excessively favour “comfort” over “detail”?

If we’re lucky,@Volusiano will add his 2 cents worth. He has tremendous technical knowledge, and the communication skills to clearly explain such things.

[Here’s some unsolicited advice: don’t do what I did and subject yourself to 6 years of confusion and misunderstanding because you didn’t fire an unresponsive audiologist!]

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Thanks for the answer. More 2 was programmed according to the audiogram with which OPN was programmed and I hear a lot more with OPN and I hear a lot more with OPN although the sound is less comfortable. Probably the problem is that More 2 has been adjusted to favor excessively “comfort” instead of “details”. As for changing audiologists, I will only be able to do so by changing the place where I am going to purchase the hearing aid because where I bought the OPN, which is where I am with the More test, there is only one audiologist who is really clumsy. I’ve been making changes to OPN for 2 years and even then it could be much better.

You may want to fix your posted audiogram because it indicates the opposite -> total deafness in the left ear.

The most obvious thing I can think of as to why you’re hearing such a low volume is that maybe your audi has the Automatic Adaptation Manager inadvertently enabled. See the first screenshot below. If it’s enabled, it can be set to go through 3 phases, with the first phase at the lowest set volume, then after a pre-determined period of time, it’ll change to the second phase, at medium set volume, then full set volume at the third phase.

The second screen shot shows that the Fine Tuning section allows for 3 different settings for the volumes at the 3 different stages.

Since you’re already wearing the OPN prior to switching to the More, the audi should start you out at Phase 3 right away. Check with your audi to see if maybe you’re inadvertently set at Phase 1 or 2 for some reason.


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If the Automatic Adaptation Manager is not inadvertently enabled and you’re at Phase 3 already, maybe the next thing your audi can do is to do an In-situ audiometry test for you in Genie 2 (see screenshot below). This basically does a tone generation test to see what threshold levels your hearing is at, very similar to the audiogram test you were given, except that this time you wear the actual hearing aid for this test instead of wearing a calibrated amplifying device to do the audiogram. It can tell you if the in-situ result is consistent with audiogram, or if it’s off by a bit for some reason (due to your hearing loss change or due to the HA performing differently than the calibrated device used in the audiogram). If there’s a difference for the worse with the in-situ result, you’ll probably want to have Genie 2 re-prescribe your HA to the in-situ result instead of using the audiogram result so you’ll get better amplification from the new in-situ prescription.

Switching from the OPN to the More should give you very comparable amplification levels right off the bat. So if you notice a sudden decrease in volume level, there must be something very obvious not set correctly. Hopefully one of these 2 checks (the automatic adaptation manager and the in-situ audiometry) can resolve the issue for you.

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Thanks for the alert, corrected audiogram.
Thanks for the alert, corrected audiogram.
And thank you very much for the indications, tomorrow I will schedule a visit to the audiologist. He is very nice but it seems to me that he is not a good audiologist, there are many things that he does not know. Just yesterday insisted that More works with any Android and that the cross works with More when not the information that comes from Oticon. I will probably have to change suppliers but the point is that here in Portugal I don’t know any place that makes programming of hearing instruments that have been sold by another company, so for OPN I am attached to this audiologist. But with your directions I can already give some tips to the audiologist.

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If you haven’t already, I suggest getting some basics through these two sources

best practices summarised by dr cliff

And they have article about listening in noise, also recommended to read.

Both sources have youtube channel if you like that media instead.

It might help with communication.

As a minimum, do wrs (no aids), and then check both aids if they provide the same wrs on 65db output speech through the speakers in front of you.

When both aids (old and new) provide same results on your ears in quiet, only then you can really compare them in real world.

If fitter doesn’t do even this, find a new one.

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Thanks for your help, Audi does not even do that but in the city where I live it is not easy to find another one. Tomorrow I have a visit scheduled and I will discuss these matters with him. It is not at all possible that the More is well adjusted when I put it on the maximum sound I hear lower than with the OPN when I turn the sound down to -2. More was adjusted by the same OPN audiogram, I did not do another one when I put More. What I think is that the audi still doesn’t know how to adjust More, tomorrow I talked to him. If I don’t get better I will test another store, I will not pay 2600 euros for a poorly adjusted hearing aid.

That’s the spirit.

And if in doubt, keep repeating to yourself - it’s your money, and you already have decently working aids, paying for new which are set up worse doesn’t have any sense.

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I’m getting desperate. I went back to the Audi, re-programmed the More 2 using the correct audiogram, increased the volume a little at my request and came home to test it. XXX, SH, etc. sounds, especially on television or on the computer, became too aggressive like paper sounds, cymbals. I went back to the Audi, lowered the treble but I don’t know that it did more that the volume dropped substantially. Yesterday I listened to the television in a medium sound with the problem of treble, now I have comfort and I have no volume. I am listening to music on the computer, low voices, Pavarotti, Carreras I have the computer sound at its maximum and I hear it softly, I put the OPN1 on and I have to lower the sound. I am very angry because I feel that More with a well-done program is fantastic, it can give me a hearing that looks like normal hearing and Audi does not get it right. It seems to me that I will have to return More, and continue my search for the better.

Sounds to me like you need to return your audiologist and continue your search for the better…

[I’ve been a professional musician for 50 years, but I am a beginner with hearing aids. The words you’re using sound like someone who is EQing a guitar amp - not the vocabulary of a HA fitting. It’s much more complicated and subtle than treble/mid/bass.

Your experience may differ from mine, but my More3s are correctly fitted, and give me excellent rendition of music, both live and recorded.]

IMO/YMMV

Probably yes. The good news is that Audi is desperate to sell and will only sell if I feel like I’m getting the best out of More. As I have not paid anything so far, it is on the side of the Audi to get the best for me. I am giving news.

Sorry: I don’t believe that “Audi is desperate to sell” is a good criterion for selecting a hearing care professional.

I like to give my business to someone who is good enough that they don’t need my money that badly.

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@tcostaesousa: I’m the last one who will tell you “I’m completely satisfied with my Oticon More3s, so you should wear them, too”.

What I’m responding to is your description of the sounds you’re hearing/not hearing. More, Paradise, Widex, Starkey … any of the big makers produce devices that are so technologically and engineering-wise advanced that only a misfitted device could produce the sounds you describe (IN MY OPINION).

I’ve been following this thread since your first post. Regardless of whether you stay with Oticon or go to another brand, I’m seriously doubtful that this audiologist will give you satisfaction.

Perhaps I don’t know enough to be making this statement, but it’s what my gut says.

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Thank you for your answers and you are right. When I said that Audi is desperate to sell I meant that it will try everything to get me the proper schedule. The company where I am testing More and where I bought the OPN 1 is owned by Oticon, so Audi has a lot to ask for help. And I know that it is much more complicated and subtle than high / medium / low. The problem is that I have little knowledge about it so I am dependent on Audi. It turns out that I live in a small town in Portugal and it is not easy to change Audi, but if it does not get what I want and need I will do tests at another store, multibrand, where I will be able to test More, Resound One and Phonak Paradise.

Yes, I remember you saying these things, and I sympathize. If the Audiologist is connected to Oticon, you would think he/she could even get some help over the Internet while you are in for your fitting.

I’m not much more sophisticated than you are, in terms of my technical understanding of hearing aids, however, I know how to analyze situations and make the best decisions with the information available.

In your case, what I believe is that -unless you get a good fitting - even the best of devices will not perform well enough in your ears to permit you to make a rational decision.

It’s my view that you don’t want to be deciding which hearing aids to wear for the next 4-5 years based on an audiologist’s adjustments that were arrived at more by good luck than by good knowledge.

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I have worn Oticon aids now for over 11 years and I know my VA Audiologist has spend many hours on the phone getting help with the fitting and adjustment. I will say this with the VA the contracts with the companies always include tech support, private Audiologist should have the same tech support

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@cvkemp: What’s your take on @tcostaesousa’s audiologist from the information available, Chuck? You’re a trained troubleshooter.

It sounds like the Audi didn’t set the aids correctly. I am wearing OPNS1 aids, and I have to admit in the car I am not hearing road noise at all unless I listen for it. But I can hear all of the sounds in the car, turn signals, the entertainment center and all of the information center and I now feel that my aids pick up speech in the car almost the loud.
It does sound like the aids aren’t set up to your need. I am wondering if a REM test was done on the aids. And I am almost willing to bet there wasn’t. It seems that too many Audiologist don’t do REM period, and most never do it when demoing aids. The More aids are by design to give so much more sound without feedback. So I would feel they are not set with the needed power or maybe the needed size receivers.

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