How to buy a mini Pro (USB 2.0 Hearing Aid Programmer)

I finally received and set up the mini pro. I am happy that I can manually trial and error adjustments and save multiple sessions like a changelog to see what sounds better per programmed iteration.

These iterations are eons better than what the initial audiologist had programmed and the help website for Genie is illustrative. Curiously the audiogram provided by Costco and the algorithm that maps to that audiogram has resulted in better sounds than that of the initial Audiologist’s audiogram.

Also, few questions that perhaps you guys can elucidate.
1 I’ve manually selected entire blocks of frequencies that I increased and decreased gain to ensure balanced gain on both left and right ears. This has resulted in 3 or 4 clicks of overhead volume that I can increase to as needed. However I’d like to ensure that the default level and the overhead volume click gains are well within safe parameters and not too loud. One thought was to ensure the target line is always slightly below than the fitted line. (Unsure of nomenclature here). Is this the best way?

2 I’ve a program for autophone in T or telecoil mode. However it doesn’t seem to help as much as listening directly to the phone handset or speakerphone. The phone used is Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus which has a telecoil. Is the autophone program really that underwhelming? I’ve yet to try it in theaters. What an I missing?

3 The speech rescue automatically chose certain frequencies to transpose speech. Volusiano and others have reamrkes that the default chosen frequency settings may not be the best one. How does one deduce the best frequency level? By maximum dynamic range area (area between Target and fitted lines)? I’ve manually listened to the sample phrase provided by Genie in the bottom left and compared/contrasted across all frequency levels in both left and right ear, and ended up choosing the default as that sounded the best.

4 @Volusiano, why do you need P2? Isn’t P1 sufficient? Where TNM low, SR off, NR on. Is it to hear the thwock of tennis balls being hit more clearly?

Also why does Speech In Noise sound different still from my P1 when setting TNM medium, SR on, NR maxed out, seemingly identical between my P1 and P2?

Is there a benefit in having SR on in music program nice?

My programs are as follows and I’ve a strong inkling to replace P3 with something else.
P1 default program: TNM medium, SR on, NR maxed out to 3 and 9 db each
P2 Speech in Noise; TNM medium, SR on…similar to P1 but it sounds louder than P1 slightly
P3 Autophone telecoil in Right, SR on, TNM medium, left reduced by 6 DB
P4 Music: TNM medium, SR on, NR off.

5 I hope to be more scientific in adjusting the each frequencies gain levels based on what times I can hear via the frequency generator websites few have referenced so that all the times are normalized at the same volume. Is this what others have done? Is there a better way to ensure fitted frequencies are valid like testing normalization across frequencies?

More adjustments to come. Once again, I’m super excited and looking forward to sharing tips and thoughts in the coming weeks.

@gkumar : I’d suggest you move this post to this thread DIY - Self Programming the Oticon Opn – How To (“DIY - Self Programming the Oticon OPN - How To”) just because that thread is probably a better place for this kind of discussion specific to OPN programming. If you move your post to the other thread, I’ll also move my answers below to the other thread as well.

To answer your question 4, I want to have P2 which is a copy of P1 because in P2 I turn off Speech Rescue while I have it turned on in P1, just so that I can tell which sounds I hear are a result of Speech Rescue by doing A/B comparison between P1 and P2. Also, sometimes when I’m outdoors playing tennis, I don’t want too many distracting noises of crickets and bird chirping, so P2 without Speech Rescue will not have these sounds being heard by me. I also set the Transient Noise Management to Low in P2 (I have it on Medium in P1) so that I can hear the tennis ball pop more fully without being muted. Finally I set the Transition help in P2 to Low while I have it on Medium in P1 because I don’t want the max noise reduction to kick in too soon while I use P2 when I play tennis.

On your question 1, I’m happy with the default volume levels and balance of both my HAs so I don’t mess around with it. Hopefully somebody else who plays around with it more can help answer this question.

On your question 2, did you buy the OPN 1 with T-coil version? If not, then the Tcoil setting won’t work/be applicable for your OPN 1. If your phone has T-coil, be aware that it’s only effective if you have one of those traditional handset phones where the handset has a magnetic-type speaker to carry out the electromagnetic induction process. You need this magnetic type speaker because it creates an electromagnetic field when the speaker is energized/exercised with a sound signal, and this electromagnetic field that represents the sound signal in turn is induced into the nearby Telecoil of the hearing aid, which in turn, from this induction process, reproduces the original sound signal that was sent to the handset speaker back onto the hearing aid end.

But note that the speaker from most smart phones nowaday doesn’t use a strong magnet like the traditional telephone handset speaker. So most smart phones nowaday cannot induce an electromagnetic field from the phone to the HA’s telecoil. Most headphones, on the other hand, still use magnet type speakers, so the headphones may induce the magnetic field to the telecoil better.

You can tell whether a speaker you use (either from a phone handset or a pair of headphones) has a strong magnet or not because you’ll hear a two tone chime from your OPN when you apply that speaker right up against the OPN, denoting that it detects a magnetic field from that speaker and therefore automatically switches the OPN into the Autophone mode. How the non-tcoil version of the OPN picks up the magnetic sound wave better in the Autophone mode compared to the regular mode without a telecoil is beyond me, however. I just know that it sounds pretty good.

In my personal experience, every time I apply a pair of headphones against my OPN (Bose QuietComfort 3 NR), I definitely hear the Autophone chime telling me that my OPN detects the magnetic speakers from the headphones. The same with my Plantronics Voyager Focus phone headset, I hear the Autophone chime. However, when I apply my iPhone or Samsung Note 4 against my OPN, I don’t hear the chime. That’s how I know that the smart phones that I have don’t have a magnetic presence from their phone speakers.

Most people use the Tcoil to pick up the induced magnetic field generated from an induction loop they wear around their neck (connected to a sound source), or to pick up the induced magnetic field generated from an induction loop placed inside a room or a theater. For smart phone usage, people don’t use Tcoil for that as much anymore because direct streaming from the iPhone or Android phones via a neck streamer is the new way to do it now.

On question 3: Genie 2 selects which Speech Rescue configuration you should use for each of your OPN. In my case, because of my asymmetrical loss, it picks a different default configuration for the left ear (config 1) and for the right ear (config 7). You can tell which is the default Genie 2 picked out for you because it has that “power” icon above that configuration. I don’t know exactly what criteria Genie 2 uses to pick out what it thinks is the best configuration. I was surprised to see that it picked configuration 7 for my right ear which has severe to profound loss in the high end. The only reason I can think of is that it sees that my hearing is hopeless in that source band for configuration 7 but the destination band for config 7 is still salvageable (amplifiable), so it selected config 7 for my right ear. And it probably picks config 1 for my right ear because my loss there at 6-8 KHz actually improved compared to at 4KHz, so it probably wants the source band on my left ear to be around the 4KHz area.

While Genie 2 may think that it’s complementary to set Speech Rescue to have different configuration in each ear to cover the most high end range transposition, I, on the other hand, find it distracting to hear the same lowered sounds in different destination bands. Sometimes it feels like Speech Rescue works only on one side for me, so I prefer them to have the same destination band and I override the default Genie setting to do so. I think the configuration selection for Speech Rescue is very subjective and personal, and if what Genie 2 picked out for you sounds good or best, then leave it there. Otherwise, feel free to pick theconfiguration that you like the most. I don’t think there’s a wrong and right configuration in Speech Rescue.

Below is the 10 configuration bands again for reference in this discussion.

image

Why would Speech in Noise program sound different if you set everything in P1 identical to the Speech in Noise? I’m not sure, but you’re not seeing everything (all the parameters) in Genie 2. One noticeable difference is that P1 is based on the General VAC+ rationale, while it’s not sure which rationale is used for Speech in Noise. Maybe it’s a variation of the VAC+ specifically for Speech in Noise and not the General VAC+ like in P1. Maybe that’s why it still sounds different to you. Have you compared their Compression Ratio tables to see if those are the same or different? That may be another source as to why they sound different.

Is there a benefit in having SR for the Music Program? I really don’t recommend adding anything, let alone Speech Rescue, in the Music Program. This will add a lot of unnecessary colors to the music you’re listening to. Generally you’d want the music to sound as pure and unadulterated as possible, with minimal processing of any kind. You’ll probably notice that the compression ratios for the Music program are also much smaller than the other programs.

Do you really find Speech Rescue helpful for your loss? That’s because your loss is so flat that it’s pointless to lower any sound to the lower frequencies because your loss at the low frequencies is just as bad as the higher frequencies. All SR will do in your case is to unnecessarily add more sounds in the low end that you can already hear just as well in the high end, so it’s kinda like double trouble in this case, you’re hearing a same sounds in 2 different places where you can hear equally well.

Regarding your P3 -> Autophone telecoil, I didn’t see that as an option in my Genie 2 menu, but then my OPN does not have a tcoil in it. Nevertheless, I can still enable Autophone on my OPN, I just don’t need a dedicated program for it. It’s like the TV Box program, it’s there but is an add-on program to the existing 4 programs.

On your item 5 -> I wouldn’t be too gun-ho about adjusting gain levels at various frequencies unless it’s to fix a specific issue you have like overdrive/distortion/saturation at certain frequencies where you may want to pare the gain down in those frequencies. If you start adjusting them for no reason just to see, sometimes you’ll alter the intended purpose of the fitting rationales selected and used for the program it’s designed for, and mess things up for the worse as opposed to improving anything. Gain normalization across frequencies may not be what Oticon wants to do in the first place. There’s still a lot of things unknown programmed by Oticon deep inside of Genie 2 not seen at the surface. So be careful with Genie 2 because it’s like getting a hold of a loaded gun, you don’t want to shoot yourself in the foot playing with it.

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Just to put this information here…Audiometrix confirms pricing on a self-programming kit (mini pro, required cables) at $175. If Audiometrix responds then the admin would probably prefer that be done over here…

Feel free to create a new topic in the Online Sellers category about this.

@AbramBaileyAuD Can you just move it over there for us?

This conversation is deeper than “where can I buy a mini Pro” … Especially referring to @Volusiano’s posts. So, I’d rather not move it. If you want to engage online sellers about where to buy this product, I’d prefer you just start a new post in their category and hash it out there.

I agree. This thread is terrific. I don’t have a problem with all the discussion but I also agree with Volusiano that maybe he and gkumar’s specific-to-OPN discussion could perhaps be moved over to the specific OPN thread as Volusiano suggested. But again…I think ALL the discussion is terrific.
I wondered if pvc’s comment about moving had to do with the other thread (that I probably erroneously directed into the online seller territory). But you had already moved it to the online seller category in the meantime which is what I linked to.

Moving this content to another thread is almost impossible. The only remedy I can think of is to delete all the conversation from this thread, only keep the Opn stuff, and retitle this page to be something related to the Opn… and then restart the mini Pro purchasing thread in the online sellers area.

Well…it’s your house…but I would say that pvc’s thread is from an enthusiast…not an online seller.
The specific OPN stuff could be moved by the authors if they deem it necessary. But that’s just me.

I agree with your, Volusiano, and Abram topics. I do not know how or if I can move my posts to an independent thread for further discussion.

If needed please feel free to move my posts. Do let me know where I should reply to some of the DIY programming questions and topics posed by Volusiano and others going forward.

I didn’t realize how insanely long this thread was when I proposed the above. Anyway, bottom line, if you want to engage online sellers about where to buy this device, start a new thread in the online sellers area.

There’s a subtle difference of language I’m picking up on.
I think pvc’s main post and the follow-on discussion are entirely appropriate in the “Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting” category for the enthusiast. I would see no problem with that same thread being used by other enthusiasts to add additional options of “How to buy…”.
I’m fine with your wish to have actual sellers being constrained to a seller area. Would there be a problem for them to link to their thread in here though so that this thread can learn of the option?
pvc is not a seller. He’s an enthusiast. He’s sharing his voluminous knowledge with fellow enthusiasts.
So far we’ve had all of one actual seller on here talking about this device. Other enthusiasts have mentioned other options (I think appropriately) here.

Actually, it’s the online sellers who engage us. :slight_smile: But either way you are right it should be in Online Sellers category. Okay, I will create a new thread in the Online Sellers category. Give me a little while.

@gkumar, you just delete a post here and then post again in another category.

That’s what I’m trying to fix.

I don’t see the problem with vendors out there in the big wide world showing their presence in the market. As long as they aren’t over-bearing and obnoxious and keep it to “yeah we’re here, we sell this stuff, find us here” that kinda thing.
I also don’t see a problem with posters mentioning vendors…although that could get a little slippery. If someone is inching perilously close to sounding like a shill for a vendor then that person could get fingers pointed at them.
This being an enthusiasts forum we should be able to talk about whatever we like in the scope of the topic. Some forums have a whole sub-forum for non-forum related topics which is fine too.
Could it be said that pvc is a shill for aliexpress or a specific vendor up there? I don’t think so…but who knows?

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I’ve received a number of complaints from users I trust about the vendors’ presence on the forum, and multiple people have suggested creating a special area for them so they can still be involved to some extent. We are monitoring for repeated linking to vendors sites, or “shill” like behavior. We will warn people like this and eventually boot them if they ignore the warnings. I am locking this thread since it’s really gone off the rails. And linking to PVC’s new post.