How much should I expect a qualified Audiologist to know?

Audiologists and Hearing Aid Dispensers
#22

Geez I would hope not. I think that while appreciation of music is in the ear of the beholder, the typical Music program in a pair of aids can be set up to improve its enjoyment for HA wearers.

It basically calls for removing noise management and things that prevent the full dynamic range of sound. Not perfect, but if I put my Phonak Lumity Life aids into the dedicated “Music” program, I will hear the highs and lows, the louds and softs better than leaving my aids in default, where they would try to outsmart the audio frequencies coming at my aids!

I call this setting “Dumb Ears” cuz I don’t want my aids to interfere with or alter ANY sound coming at them. And I only use this program when at a concert or listening to our hifi at home. There is NO suppression of sound or, say, the wailing of a firetruck roaring by if I have my aids in the dedicated “Music” program.

#23

As @Um_bongo states above, most are coming from a different field of academia.
Perhaps they enjoy music, but their main focus is on audiological principles, vs music as it applies to audiophiles.
I believe, if you go into a audi appointment with a cohesive explanation of your goals, and bring a source, such as headphones and some music with you, you can convey enough information to get a empathetic understanding from a knowledgeable audi.
At least that can get you in the ballpark, hopefully!

Most new HA wearers are totally unaware of the Dedicated Music Program available in all major brands.
They are so overwhelmed by the entire experience of having to learn a new way of listening, and the problem is most audi’s do not explain the many benefits offered in modern HAs.
So, the patient walks out the door, and they are greeted with the cacaphony of sounds they forgot were present in the Hearing world.
If, like you, they are music lovers, they put on their favorite music in the car, and it sounds like boombox city.
I know from following some of your posts (not stalking you), you came to the Music program after many years of frustration with your hi-end A&K DAP.
So you can relate to the frustrations of users who know what they want, but not how to achieve it.

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#24

Agreed. I think this could be boiled down to finding the audiologist that can support how you hear the world.

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#25

That is TRUE! I only found out about the dedicated Music program when I looked at the list of Features here at the Phonak site. None of my audis would ever have thought to mention it to me. They don’t walk in my shoes or hear through my ears.

I guess our eternal challenge as those who buy and use aids is to always be proactive and seek information on how to maximize our enjoyment with them. The other critical feature I learned about here at the forum was “Acoustic Phone” which I’ve had as part of my dedicated program lineup for a few years now. My previous audi actually had to get on the phone with Phonak Tech to be walked through the setup!

This is such an excellent forum for information & experience sharing, tips and tricks, that I wish more new HA customers were steered right here.

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#26

Part of the issue here is Rumsfeld’s paradox.

Known - unknowns: Hearing aid doesn’t perform well enough in speech - Ask for tweakery/REM ETC.

Unknown - unknowns: Hearing aid can switch on your porch light, has separate music mode, has GPS fencing system, talks to your watch, has 4-6 separately programmable memories, has x user defined memories, works if you’re a wedding harpist (brand A), doesn’t work if you’re a wedding harpist (brand B)………etc.

The first part of the fitting interaction ’should’ be pretty straightforward: though not in all cases as we read on these pages. The second part depends on your relationship with your provider to some extent. Specifically it needs you to offer up the kind of information that you might feel uncomfortable or disadvantaged by sharing with someone you’re only meeting for the first or second time - during a process that could be called a ‘grudge purchase’, where your natural defences are higher than they would otherwise be.

Now, I’m sure everyone on here is entirely delightful and takes the advice of junior white coated people entirely on it’s merits, without firstly jumping to the conclusion that they’re being railroaded by some sort of ‘dealer’ into an expensive unnecessary purchase……

I suspect you get my point; there’s a balance to be struck between getting the fitting to where it needs to be (not always where the client is most satisfied), convincing the client that the long term outcome is definitely beneficial for them AND getting the client fully familiar with the one of 15 extra features that the aids have which is pertinent to their particular needs.

We have clinic branded pens (‘Sell me this Pen!’), my advice to the client at the first fitting is always to write down 4-5 simple points about where the aid is working, where it doesn’t and anything unusual they experience; bring that back in with any thoughts on how we can work together to improve their experience. It’s not perfect, but it’s another step that gets us away from the adversarial mode that these situations can slide into.

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#27

I don’t see that anyone else has mentioned it here, so I’ll just add that–in the US–a professional Audiologist has several years of advanced post-graduate university education in Audiology. Such a person has earned the right to call themselves “Au.D.” or “Au.M”. Much more common in the landscape are “Hearing Aid Dispensers”, those permitted to adjust and sell hearing aids for the buying public. One must have a state license to perform either job. In California the requirements are: a high school diploma, passing a written and practical state exam, and a brief training period. The legal job title (in CA) is “Hearing Instrument Specialist”. My specialist has held his position for 5 years; before that he worked 15 years at other Costco jobs. The longer your specialist has worked as a “hearing aid dispenser” the better he/she is likely to be.
There used to be a big difference in what dispensers were “called”-- “audiologist” only if they had the university degree in Audiology. (Many of these are available long-distance.) Nowadays, however, and on this Forum, everyone gets called an “audi”! But–they aren’t all the same in terms of training and experience, knowledge and skill!

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#28

In my blinkered black & white view of the world, there are only 2 types of people, them that know, and them that think they know… The skillset requirement of a good A.uD or indeed HIS, is wide and varied… IMO, they need many skills, but 3 essential ones (1) Knowledge of the hearing aids at their disposal, with a clear understanding of their capabilities, and perhaps, they also need the wisdom of failure, in order to guide them from previous endeavours… (2) They need to be computer literate, and without this skill, they will struggle… They need to easily navigate there way around the software, with a deep knowledge of how it works, and how to rectify mistakes (3) They need “People” skills, in order to make a measurable difference, interpersonal skills, do not come easy, socialization is a process that can be learned, but very few health professionals are interested in this skill, if you can put a client at ease, you are more likely to get the correct information, and thereby facilitate a good fitting, and have a more satisfied customer… Now, finding the an A.uD/HIS with these skillsets might seem like a daunting task, “Rare as Hen’s Teeth” I hear you say… :grin: But, as Meatloaf once put it, “2 Out of 3, ain’t bad”… Cheers Kev :wink:

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#29

True, and it occurs to me that in some fields, the rate you pay for a professional varies according to their qualifications. For example, therapy with a PhD psychologist might cost more per hour than therapy with an LCSW.

But in the hearing aid business, where service is typically bundled with the device, the individual’s training is never mentioned along with the price, and prices don’t seem to vary with training. If a pair of current, top-technology aids with in-person support from an AuD costs $6000, shouldn’t the price be like $5000 or even less with support from an HIS?

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#30

That is one KNOWN known that I do know! I have a wheelbarrow full of notes I’ve brought to appointments with my audis. I value their time and want to make the most of it! I’ve often said “Having a good audi is like a good marriage.” I invest time and genuine care in the relationship so it blossoms and grows! :slight_smile:

I agree that the better we are at sharing information and articulating our needs, the more likely we’ll edge closer to the optimum setting for our aids. There was a thread up here that linked over to something called the SenseLab Soundwheel. I found this an intriguing tool that can help customers articulate issues they’re having with their aids:

SenseLab Sound Wheel
SenseLab Sound Wheel1298×1208 34.9 KB

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#31

On the surface of it, maybe yes, But in real life…maybe no. There are some HIS that really know their stuff and have had years of hands on experience. A newly minted AuD generally does not have the skill set of an experienced HIS.
It is all based on individual education/experience and learning from successes and failures.
You can’t use a spray gun to paint a model car.
Dan

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#32

So to sum up then, getting back to my post that started this thread, in which I attempted to choose my words fairly carefully, the general consensus appears to be that I am indeed expecting too much to expect a TRAINED and INTERESTED AUDIOLOGIST to know very much about the development of hearing aid technology over the years and decades.

(where “interested” = I have a genuine interest in what I do for a living, and that’s what elevates me above a mere salesperson)

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#33

Again, I’m casting my vote: YES. It ain’t gonna happen unless the audi is old enough to have lived through all the permutations and releases.

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#34

Philosophically, I think you have a good point. As a retired pharmacist, my initial education was a little too late for learning how specific plants were incorporated into medicinals, but did still address the manual compounding of drugs - usually creams and ointments - even though it was rarely done in the real world at the time. In turn, the teaching of cream/ointment preparation was scrapped before long, with the role of preparing intravenous solutions becoming more prevalent.

Everyone had the opportunity to learn about past practices even though they were no longer taught, and we probably all did to various degrees - but it requires some degree of intellectual curiosity. Although the well-roundedness of an education - being either a “professional” or a “technician” - is not necessarily going to make a difference in tuning up one’s hearing aids, it may well make a difference in other aspects of treating one’s hearing loss.

Even though I’m brand new with needing hearing aids, I notice kind of a lack of interest in anything having to do with loops, for instance, since there’s Bluetooth available. And there’s going to be much more, and very soon, and I hope that my audiologist has the intellectual curiosity to help navigate some of that.

#35

My last dentist, now retired, had an old foot-operated drill sitting in the corner of one of the operatories. It was interesting to see. One time he offered to work on me with it. No, I didn’t accept.

#36

I dunno, do you expect your auto mechanic to understand anything about how to deal with a 1960s-era Mustang? I don’t. So if I happened to want service for a 1960s-era Mustang, I’d go to a mechanic who specializes in antique vehicles. I wouldn’t feel disrespected if one of the mainstream mechanics wouldn’t handle it for me.

I don’t know the particulars of your hearing loss, beyond the fact that you probably need better music-focused hearing than most hearing aids are designed to deliver. So I can understand your dissatisfaction with the mainstream products and services. I don’t get good live-music reception at all from my new Signias, bought a year ago, and so I attend concerts expecting to get a less-than-perfect rendering of the music. On the other hand, they deliver stunning sound reception via bluetooth, meaning recorded music comes through extremely well. I don’t know how you might weigh one over the other, in this imperfect world. I’ve learned to live with it, but maybe you can’t.

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#37

As far as I can see, re: my Audi; All he was required to know before being hired, was how to create ‘After Sales, Sales’

#38

Make sure your audi programmed a dedicated music program for you.
If it still isn’t right, take notes, and inform them of the issues.
Live music can sound very engaging with properly tuned HAs.
You may wish to post your audiogram in your profile, so others can know what hearing challenges you’re facing, and be able to offer assistance.

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#39

Thank you for that, I will. A year or so ago I mentioned to my ENT that music sounded so terrible to me (like instruments are playing out of tune), and he told me there wasn’t much to be done about that because speech was given priority. So I’ve never followed up on that with the audiologist. I will call her tomorrow to ask.

Does that help with theater?

#40

Your comments are interesting. Thank you :slight_smile:

#41

I just want my hearing aids to work.
Setup is the key.

I believe the essential step is to find the right audiologist that is capable of setting up the product she buys from the manufacturer.

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