How a narrower frequency range of hearing aids would impact my hearing?

[leedsender]

I have severe hearing loss of 80db on average and my audiologist advised me to choose a more powerful model of hearing aids (RIC or ITC) than my current Phonak CIC SP for better hearing quality, especially for soft sounds which I’ve been struggling with. After a research of all the major brands, I found almost all of them have narrowed the frequency ranges for their most powerful models dramatically, usually from 100-7/8k hz to around 100-5k hz. For example, The frequency range of Phonak narrows from 100-7k hz for SP to 100-5k for UP, while that of ReSound changes from 100-6.71k for HP to 100-4.72k for UP. The only exception seems to be Oticon, which maintains a frequency range of 100-7.5k hz even for its most powerful model ( I guess it’s for 100 db loss).
So my question are:

1. How would hearing aids with such a narrower frequency range impact my hearing? Does it mean I’d not hear some sounds? Like what? Would my speech recognition be affected as well, and in which aspect particularly?
2. Why do most of these brands do that frequency range reduction? Is there some technical tradeoff there? i.e., for some other benefits? In other words, is it because maintaining the same wide frequency range would result in poorer hearing quality or some other harm?
3. Why was Oticon able to maintain the same wide frequency range? Is it because it uses some unique technology or algorithm? Would it be a better choice than other brands for me because of that? I really want to preserve my residual hearing as much as possible while hearing better with the new hearing aids.

Any reply would be much appreciated.

[Louie]

Hey @leedsender You’ll need to post your audiogram for any meaningful response.

[Zebras]

For Phonak, I’ve been told Sound Recover II increases the range.

[firenzel]

search for keywords Balanced Armature (BA) and diaphragm,

currently the receivers are BA (one of the main manufacturer is Knowles), and the higher power UP receivers have a bigger diaphragm to produce louder volume at lower frequencys, and the bigger diaphragm is, the lesser is the ability for producing very high frequencys.

i suggest you read this thread

The best hearing aid for very high frequency loss

My high frequency hearing has rolled off over the last 20-years. I can no longer hear crickets, birds or change in my pocket. If I put the coins up to my ear, I can hear them normally. If I put on a pair of Bose ear buds I can hear the brushes on the symbols like I did in my younger years. According to hearing tests, my hearing hasn’t changed much in the 15-years that I have been wearing hearing aids but they only test up to 6 kHz or so. All of the detail in sound is in the high frequencies. Doe…

Quote: “hearing aids are mainly designed for SPEECH, therefore receivers (Look at the Knowles Tech bulletins, data-sheets and support notes ) are designed around the same principle. Most speech occurs in the 250Hz to 6Khz range”

The best hearing aid for very high frequency loss

Yes, you are correct - but it doesn’t work like that - I’ll make this simple for you to understand. If you tune a system/beam/whatever to a specific resonance it will resonate most freely at his resonance. You will have a primary resonance and then harmonics at double the frequency and multiples thereof. Look at the dB HL curve in terms of SPL and the amount of roll off at the HF (and LF) before you start thinking about it. What you think of as consistent levels of gain over several pitches I…

Frequency lowering aka. compression like “Sound Recover2” (Phonak) , “Speech Rescue” (Oticon) is for lowering/shifting down higher frequencies and copy that into areas of lower frequency where most of the people have better hearing. Most manufacturers have some variation of frequency lowering.

[eyesgreendeaf]

I dont have much choice given my very severe-profound loss. I wear paradise p30 up .
I can hear up to 10khz sounds with sound recover 2. But I should add that frequency lowering and compression changes quality of sounds. I perceive this as a bit less treble effect. You can hear sounds but you hear them at different frequencies than the real ones. This causes change of quality. But over time you adapt to the new sounds and this becomes the norm in your brain.

[MDB]

If you have a profound loss, you’re not hearing those higher frequencies even if the hearing aid frequency range includes higher frequencies. I’m too lazy to look up Oticon. They may just be more optimistic. All receivers tail off at the higher frequencies. Deciding where the range cutoff is a judgement call.

[Raudrive]

Take a look at the speech banana. It will give you a general idea of what sounds you hear in life at different frequencies.
Sharing your audiogram would be helpful.

[x475aws]

@MDB

All receivers tail off at the higher frequencies. Deciding where the range cutoff is a judgement call.

There is a standard for where to cut off the range. The range ends, at both high and low ends, where the gain drops 20 dB below the high frequency average (HFA) gain. HFA gain is the average of the gain at 1000, 1600, and 2500 Hz. The conditions for measuring HFA gain may differ between manufacturers.

[leedsender]

Thanks a lot. I’ve found the datasheet of Oticon OWN for 100db model as shown below. As my HFA is 80db, where do you think my own range end? Should I look at the point the line cross the 60db in the full-on gain section? Many thanks.

[Zebras]

Just be aware of how compressed sound will be if your loss is roughly 80 dB but max is 100 dB. Doesn’t leave a lot of room for space.

I’m assuming you have a flat loss as you haven’t shown us your audiogram.

If in fact your loss is ski slope and your lows are near normal then that changes things.

We are guessing due to not been given full information.

[leedsender]

Thanks a lot, Zebras, below is my audiogram. Any thought or suggestion? I was wondering whether I should go for Oticon or other brands with narrower frequency ranges. @Louie @MDB @Raudrive @x475aws

[Raudrive]

Thanks for sharing your audiogram.
It is pretty flat which typically makes it easier to fit.
Is your hearing loss stable? If it is pretty stable you could probably get by with RIC hearing aids.
Do you only wear one hearing aid?

[leedsender]

Yes, I wear one aid. and the loss is relatively stable. My audiologist has advised me to ditch the current CIC model and choose ITC over RIC, because she thinks that the RIC model, given the location of its microphones behind the ear, may not give me as clear and natural a hearing as does an ITC model, as I’ve been used to wearing CIC model for a long time. And she also said the RIC model may be more susceptible to damage by sweat, etc. I’m still not decided on ITC or RIC yet.

[Um_bongo]

(This board just edited out the post I just quoted of your Audiologist’s argument)

Some of that may or may not be true.

Pinna effects are reduced with hearing aids that occupy more of the concha area.

RIC are ok, don’t let the sweat/acoustic arguments put you off unless you intend to use them while exercising.

However, I sort of agree that a decent power ITE would be good for you as long as it has the beans to give you enough headroom in the fitting. Also: Oticon, not so great with the overdriven 100dB receiver. It’s a longevity issue in my book: they have a bit of a habit of failing.
Consider a Starkey too, they’ve been making power full shell ITE for years and have some good features to play with.

[MDB]

I think the frequency range is the least of your concerns. I’d listen to Um_bongo

[Overoaked]

Looks to me like you have otosclerosis. Even shows the Carhart’s notch. Has a stapedectomy been mentioned? I’ve had four.

[WD40]

You should be evaluated for a cochlear implant.
As for the narrowed frequencies, with some aural rehab, you could actually notice an improvement.

[Zebras]

This is the picture I was trying to find. Think it explains how frequently lowering can extend the range.

Took a while to find it.

[leedsender]

Thanks a lot, Zebras. Much appreciated. I got a hunch that my hearing loss has been so bad for so long that my actual frequency range has become so narrow that the wider range, especially the portion of the higher frequencies, of the HA may probably mean little to me, as @x475aws and @MDB suggested. By the way, I’ve just had a very short trial of Signia’s AX 3 at my audio’s office. The sound appears more natural than Phonak Paradise to me and there also seems to.be more, but not too much, background sounds, which I like because they didn’t affect my speech recognition. I don’t know technically what has made the difference but that’s really a surprise to me because I’d never tried Signia before and had, frankly, long rated it a level below the other four big brands, i.e., ReSound, Phonak, Widex and Oticon. It sounds a little like my first trial of Widex Moment. Now I consider giving it try. It’s just getting more and more difficult to choose…