Zebras, can you tell us more about that Roger system? What kind of equipment is installed in the building? What device do people use if they have no hearing aid, a telecoil hearing aid, a non-telecoil Phonak hearing aid, or a non-telecoil non-Phonak hearing aid?
I’ve seen people promoting some sophisticated FM-based systems for this but a few years later they seem to have sunk without a trace.
I hate to be the human broken record, but the answer is Bluetooth. Just not right now unfortunately. The latency of current generatioin Bluetooth Audio makes broadcast audio uworkable. It’s also a 1-1 system. Even more unworkable.
LE Audio is almost ready for release (it has been for a while now, admittedly) and replacing loop systems was one of its design goals. First, LE Audio has to be ratified by the Bluetooth SIG, then we wait for hardware. Chipsets that support LE Audio on smartphones and earbuds are already available, so maybe the wait won’t be long for support on those devices. Broadcast systems probably rely on a critical mass of people carrying the right hardware, so that’s more problematical.
A single transmitter in the ceiling of a church is probably all you’d need. No need for the user to pair.
I sympathize with you, on all counts.
Either with or without my hearing aids, music now sounds so distorted and off key that I can’t enjoy it. In church, from the radio and TV, my CDs, none of it sounds right. I was a musician, but no longer.
And I found I have 2 options for worship: I can either attend in person, have no idea what is said, and go up for Communion, or sit at home and watch on TV, follow along using both my hearing aids and closed captioning, but not get Communion. The pandemic has made this second option the only safe one for me, for now.
It is so frustrating.
Do you feed an output from the sound system into the Roger Touchscreen? Or is it at the front with the person speaking?
WH
We have 1 x Touchscreen and then lots of Mics (I’ve just search what the real name is).
It’s called a Pass Around Mic.
https://www.deafequipment.co.uk/product/11079827/3PRPAM/Roger-Pass-around-Mic
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I’m curious about no need to pair @d_Wooluf. Do you anticipate hearing aids will have a program dedicated to public BT? How will users control their audio input in these settings?
The larger the space, the more complex and costly. The $10K is based on experience with two public installations.
I think there is a vicious circle: In areas where loops are not common, people don’t bother with aids that have a T-coil option; and where few people have aids fitted with T-coils, facilities don’t consider it worth the cost of installing loop systems.
Well I stand corrected on the cost. That’s a lot of money. I remember when t coils and a loop systems were going to be everywhere. Apparently they are in Europe. But if that’s what they cost I can see why they’re not as available as many thought they eventually would be. As far as music goes I’m amazed by how well my hearing aids handle music
My church transmits the microphones over an FM signal. Ask the ushers, and they have a basket…a tangled up mess really… of these little FM receivers made by listen technologies with old fashioned walkman style headphones.
Early on after I got my aids, I asked to look at them. Made a note of the frequency. I did a little research and found a receiver, newer style than what the church has. Mine comes with an amplified neck loop and works through my T-Coil. I turn it on and it automatically i think scans the channels and lock on.
It’s not perfect. Static if I’m on the other end of the church from the sound board…but it helps me tremendously to cut through the echo. I can understand with just my aids maybe 98% when it’s a native speaker…but when we have our foreign priest speak I drop whole sentences sometimes… with teh neck loop I get pretty much all of it.
And even though it’s not stereo or even good quality audio, it actually helps I think with the music too!
Mine is a previous version of something like this. I can’t recall the model number just now
oh wat…mine is an LR-4200-072
https://www.ebay.com/p/12007596356?iid=123821335041
pretty good I think if your church has an FM broadcast and you have T-coil. Use headphones if no T-coil…
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I don’t have telecoil, but I could plug the headphone adapter of my Roger On into one of the FM things maybe! I will have to ask and see. One more experiment to try.
WH
AMEN to the “vicious circle” comment!
I truly believe Looping is the best solution.
I live in Sun City Texas and when I moved here only one big facility was looped. Our Hearing Solutions SIG got on the ball and pushed for looping when floors were replaced and new facilities built and we now have most large rooms looped. The local Georgetown live theater is also looped, the county tax office has a portable loop, and many churches are also looped. Our biggest problem now, is convincing all the local providers to explain looping/T-coil to their clients.
Recently some of the providers have installed loops inside their office so they can DEMO to clients and I think that is making a big difference. You can stand outside one provider’s office and hear the TV in his waiting room via T-coil when the SPEAKER volume is OFF !!!
SOME DAY, Bluetooth may be viable. But for now it is not even reliable across phone brands. I use an iPhone which I HATE because it is the most reliable connection to my hearing aids. My brother has the same aids with an Android phone and about 1/2 the time, they do not connect.
I tried Phonak demos since with Classic Bluetooth they should work regardless of phone, but they were not reliable with my iphone and since I stream a lot, battery use was a killer.
It is up to US, the people who need it, to push for Loops as an ADA solution!!
I think we’ll do most of our controlling from other devices. Smartphones and smart watches I guess. I think it will be too laborious in the real world to control that kind of stuff from the aids. You’ll probably arrive at the venue and scan a vr code at the door. Ifi you’re a regular there will probably be rule based systems. So maybe a voice prompt? “One of your favourite broadcast streams is now available. Tap your left hearing aid to connect”.I’m thinking creatively here. I’ve got no inside knowledge.
What I do know is that there will be broadcast streams (connectionless, like radio) and one-to-many streams where there might have to sign in somehow. For pay-to-listen or confidential content.
That’s probably the kind of stuff they’re working on right now. I think most of the low-level specs have been done.
Here in the UK loop systems are common and work reasonably well. I’ve just checked with a local AV installer and they sell a loop amp good for 1,000 sq m coverage for £395. Ideally, you get a pro to design your loop layout but it’s not rocket science and there are various website which tell you how to do it. You can get a gadget for around £50 for checking the field strength. Actually laying the cable is a low-skill job. For under-carpet or beneath a wall covering you can use copper foil tape for any part or all of the loop, but you probably need to solder wire-to-foil connections.
I would think that any HA from a multinational company would have loop capability though it may welll need to be enabled by your audi. It’s a perfectly adequate low-tech solution to a simple problem. Why use Bluetooth? There will inevitably be a certain latency. I once tried a Bluetooth microphone app on my iPhone to link to a Bluetooth receiver on the church hall sound system and the latency made it completely unuseable - hearing your own voice with a delay made it impossible to put two words together. Bluetooth is fine for listening to the TV but not if you’re partially hearing the speaker direct.
Well as has been stated previously. If the price is $10, 000 that’s a lot of money to expect a church to shell out for something that will help a limited number of parishioners.
Brad, I’m glad those headphones work for you. But for those of us that reside at the bottom of the canyon they’re pretty much useless, unfortunately.
,
A very complex problem. I have dealt with the church audio team for years and still don’t have it right. Our church recently renovated during the Covid-19 shutdown. The new Hearing assist systems are the latest by Listen. I don’t know the details, but I am sure that it is the top of the line. The basic system is FM. The usual user gets a small clip on receiver and a single earpiece. I won’t discuss the earpiece, but I do use the receiver. I have Resound HA and their mini-mike. I marry the two systems by a simple audio cord from the Listen receiver to the streaming input port of the minimike which talks to my HA via BT. Basically, a reasonably decent arrangement. However, there are still the details to face. I sit with my phone in hand, constantly adjusting volume and/or switching from one HA setting to another as a given speaker’s voice rises and falls. The good news is that, because of the pastor’s full voice, I get pretty much everything, but with some others, not so much.
BTW, unreIated, think the BT system is currently limited to around 30 feet between transmitter and receiver, so it seems unlikely that a simple BT system will work in a large situation.
Sorry for the length of this dissertation, but it has taken me a long time to get the background. I have been using HA over 30 years.
LGPiper – You might contact Old North Church in Marblehead, which isn’t far from you.
I had an amazing experience a few years ago, zoning out with bad acoustics, exhausted because I couldn’t understand the minister. I sat, idly fiddling with my hearing aid buttons out of boredom. I must have hit one of the program buttons instead of the volume control, because all of a sudden, I could hear. Every word. Perfectly clearly. Turns out, I had hit my telecoil program.
It was so exciting. I talked to someone on the staff a few days later – it seems a member of the congregation had pushed for the loop a few years before. They never advertised it or put up one of the signs indicating availability.
I was involved with a project for another group in Boston that I thought might benefit from a loop and did a little research. My recollection is that the loops are NOT expensive; I think some people even install them at home. I don’t recall the limitations – it’s possible that the sound must be transmitted through a connected microphone, so it would not pick up someone who stands and speaks. But I’m not certain.
Some googling might yield more info, but check out LoopAmerica.com. They have a map showing looped locations by state – there are other locations in Massachusetts – and a list of installers. There’s a company in Lowell that does them.
What is great about loops is that they are invisible, discreet, and require no staff intervention or special requests. I’m not going to ask for an FM transmitter from someone who probably doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Who wants to draw attention to themselves and take up time before an event? Not to mention such equipment is probably never cleaned.
Looping is such a simple, effective technology. It’s common in the UK. I believe NYC requires it in theatres and certain other public spaces.
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Again. When t coils and hook systems first came out it was assumed that almost everything practical in the United States would eventually be looped. Europe certainly jumped on the band wagon and bravo to them. It never happened in America. If you can name the places that are looped then you’re talking about exceptions and not the norm. Unfortunately we missed the boat on this one. When I come across a loop system I an astounded. Works great, really helps. That’s twice now in the past 20 years, not counting landlines.
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