Hearing Aids Programming

Hi everyone.
I am looking for assistance re programming with Phonak target. If someone wants to help, please read the whole post.
I have hearing loss since age of 4. Back then did not like to use aids due to unbearable noise. Besides, the loss was not as bad as it is now, and I could use my native language. In the meantime, I moved to another country, got older, and hearing deteriorated.So, logical step was to try with aids. They were way too expensive at audiologist, so I started looking online, Started with Siemens Motion 100, then Widex Mind 440, Phonak Audeo S IX, and am now using Audeo V90 312T. Being a bit of technical geek, I also have iCube for programming, Roger Pen, ComPilot, Roger MyLink,…Visited audiologist few times, but was not happy with result, so started with my own programming. I thought that the way I did i was not bad, as I hear much better with aids. But, recent visit to the audiologist made me suspicious re my programming. It was initial appointment, so I was charged nothing. He looked at my file exported from the ads, and told me that it’s far from the way it should be. What I think is good, in his opinion is not good, since I even do not know what normal hearing is. It makes sense.So I did some adjustments according to his short advice but still have no clue if it’s right way to do it. I am not asking for “exact programming” - iot does not exist, just need to know if my current program makes sense or is complere senseless rubb.sh
Bottom line - is there anyone here with sufficient knowledge and experience to take a look at my programming and advise if it is right way? I can send the file exported from Phonak Target (not sure if there is option of sending/posting files here, though).

This is really interesting. First of all I’m no expert. I also don’t know how to help you with your programming question. So ignore the rest if you prefer.

So…normal hearing. What is normal? The audi could do the REM thing and from that tell whether the aids are outputting to something allegedly defined as normal. But…if you are understanding speech without having people repeat things and hearing things for your safety… then FOR YOU why wouldn’t that be good FOR YOU. You are the only judge of how well you’re hearing the world around you.

So self-programming things using the audi’s suggestions…is what you’re hearing better now? Or worse? Just different?

Thanks for your reply. Aids work well, and for me, they work. However, audi’s idea is that I have no idea what normal hearing looks like (which I agree with), and therefore my understanding of “Aids working well” is somewhat distorted/clouded…His idea might be that, with proper programming, it could be better. Or it might be typical expert’s jealousy when someone not qualified shows that it’s not rocket science.

I like your last line :slight_smile:
As a curiosity it would be interesting to have him do his expert adjustments (while keeping yours in your saved file of course to possibly return to) and hear and compare how it’s “supposed” to sound. Hopefully him doing his adjustments isn’t too much money all for a curiosity.
But still…if you can hear people without them repeating and you can hear things around you for your safety then why bother. You’ve got it. You’re there. Does it really matter what “normal” is? This is what tweaked my curiosity of your post.

I would happily pay for 1 session for his fitting, but he wants me to pay for 5 sessions as he says I would ask for further adjustments after initial one…

Well that’s just silly. Then pay again for another visit if you need it. Otherwise he’s making assumptions.

I’m doing it the other way around. I got new aids (my first). Had several adjustment appointments. Now I’m going to be doing my own adjustments. Like you “being a bit of a technical geek”. I will keep the current settings in a file and then fiddle. If I need to get back to the set baseline then I’ll reload the current.

My personal opinion is that the audi is NOT qualified to tell you what normal hearing for you should be because they don’t have your hearing loss nor can they ever be in your shoes to know how you hear things after any kind of programming/adjustment.

The audi may only tell you that your programming is far from normal simply because it’s not the same as the default settings that would come from the programming software initially based on your audiogram input. The only “normal” the audi can restore your program back to is to restore it to the initial default settings, something that you can easily do yourself.

If you pay the audi for a visit, that’s what he’s going to do, restore everything to the default values. That’s what all audis do/start out with. Any adjustment they do for you based on your inputs is deviation from “normal” just like any adjustment you do for yourself.

The difference may be that the audi has more knowledge to know where/how to constrain the adjustments/fine tuning as to not go overboard while you may not know better and don’t restrain yourself and mess things up for the worse and don’t know how to back track and fix things. But that’s what saved sessions are for. So if you take meticulous notes about your own adjustments and proceed very slowly and cautiously with small incremental changes at a time so you can back track when things go awry then it should be OK.

If you’re currently happy with the latest settings you have set for yourself, then if you want to see how it compares with the original default, then save the latest session then restore everything to default to see which one you like better. If you like the default settings better then you know that you’ve gone wrong with your own settings. Otherwise keep your settings and don’t second guess yourself.

No, he does not want to go session by session

Well, yes, that’s what he talked about, resetting to default values. Is it “Restore to factory settings option”? If it is what you are talking about, will restoring to factory settings simply delete all settings or set everything to defaults for MY loss, based on my audiogram? Hope you understand and see difference.
What is measurement condition for gain and MPO? Should I start with Setup -> Fitting Session? Which default fitting formula to use? In the end, how to restore to default values?
Thank you for your answers

I would suggest starting from scratch by setting up a new client then running audiogram direct. Using this method will input a tone in your ear for each frequency 250, 500 1000, 1500 and you’ll in effect create your own audiogram. It may take a bit to figure out how to run AGD bit you might be surprised at the results… Worth a try IMO.

Thank you. Ssorry for my ignorance, but I already have audiogram done by my audi. Is this any different?

I found AudiogramDirect to be more accurate. I’m hearing loads better after having AudiogramDirect done on me.

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Ok, can you tell me , step by step, what to do to restore to default? Do I need to change anything in settings?

I did the same thing with my previous aids, initial visit to audi, then further adjustments by myself. But, then I changed the aids.

I’m not sure “restore to default” is the correct terminology. I think they are talking about doing a new fitting and using Phonak’s fitting formula or NAL-NL2. How did you get to where you are with your program? Did you input an audiogram.
I don’t think the audiologist is talking about “normal.” He’s talking about given your audiogram the level of gain most people find beneficial. If you’re way under that, it’s likely you have potential to hear better.

Yes, I put my own audiogram, and then played with these fine tuning adjustments with different situations voices, tones,…) I like the way it is now, but am quite sure that it can be better, especially when it comes to automatic changes from one setting to another - unless I do it manually, i can’t see these changes happening.

Adudi had not referred to level of gain, rather to level of gain with specific frequencies - eg, he would go with louder high freqs, and lower mid and low freqs. My loss is worst in high freqs. He also told me that curves of my adjustments (bold ones) need to follow these curves made by program itself (thinner curves)

What fitting formula did you use? Did you select the proper parameters for the type of dome or mold you have? I don’t see your audiogram posted. Basically the curves that he’s talking about are just what the program “thinks” you should have. If you’ve adjusted to something you’re happier with, I don’t see a problem, especially if you started out with your audiogram inputted and a viable fitting formula. Without your audiogram I have no idea of how much high frequency loss, but the Audeo V’s have something called Sound Recover that can lower high frequencies into a range where they can be heard.

!. I don’t know how to post my audiogram here. Surely I can write values, but is there an option to attach a file?
2. I know about sound recovery feature
3.Yes, I took domes in account
4.I am using Phonak adaptive Digital formula. Is there much of difference with these formulas?

Info from PVC on how to enter audiogram follows. I doubt there’s a huge difference in the fitting formula. Just wanted to know if you were aware that there were choices. I suspect what you’ve come up with is fine.

Here’s how to Enter Your Audiogram:

Visit https://www.hearingtracker.com/my-profile6

Once you are in your Profile then find links to:
Enter your audiogram, or Update My Hearing Test

There are two ways to enter your audiogram. Graphically you can mouse drag the X’s and O’s around or switch to Manual Entry to just type in the numbers.