Well Google must be doing something right though. Android has 85.9% of the total device market share and Apple is a distant second with only 14%.
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The selling of streaming devices is still an extra source of revenue for HA manufacturers. There has not been any real change in them other than Phonak Marvel’s platform which made them redundant. I find it also strange that Pie did not have any assistive hearing aid settings as they
did in Nougat.
Take a look at the android dashboard (Distribution dashboard | Android Developers). Android 7, aka Nougat, was released in August 2016. Android 7.1 was released in December 2016. This means that approximately 50% of the android installed base is from August 2016 or earlier. 50%!!! Only approximately 10% of the installed base is running Android 9, aka Pie. Phones that aren’t running Pie will never get updated. Therefore, 90% of the installed base is literally dead in the water. Android may have over 85% of the market, but the vast majority of those devices will not ever receive an update.
Contrast that to Apple, where every device is virtually guaranteed to get several years of updates. iOS 13 was just released and the phones that aren’t included in the update are from 2013 and 2014.
Google should be ashamed of this deplorable situation, but clearly by its actions, it’s not. Google doesn’t support its own devices half as well as Apple.
But Daryl, the only Android devices that are actually under Google’s control are their own Pixel devices and they are the first to get updated and automatically at that. How can Google control what the other independent manufacturers do?
I still love @MDB’s line that making predictions is hard, especially when it comes to the future.
I agree with much of what you have to say, Daryl, but I think some of the figures are illusory.
With HA’s and Android, when we’re talking about Android fragmentation, we’re talking WHOLE WORLD figures. I wonder what the Android picture looks like just for the well-off countries? And with HA’s, we’re probably talking mostly about the well-off countries, not the same distribution as for Android world-wide.
The other thing about fragmentation is people like me are contributing to the appearance of fragmentation but in actuality we’re still living mostly in the now and the future, not the past. I can count four Android “devices” that I own. And just like you, I don’t trash my older devices. I keep them around, turn them on to charge them, update them at least once every other month or so. So I’m contributing a Galaxy Nexus from 2011, a Nexus 7 tablet from 2012, and a “phone device” run under a Blue Stacks emulator on my PC from the vicinity of 2012 to 2013, all of which are running Android 5 or earlier. But I only really use my Galaxy Note 8, running Android Pie(v.9). So some fraction of the fragmentation may result from folks like me who still keep their old devices hanging around, and again, to see what’s going on relative to countries HA OEM’s are focused on, it would be great to restrict Android analysis to regions where HA’s have a relatively high penetration rate into the population.
Fragmentation does not keep you from being dominant in your sphere of influence. Look at the penetration in enterprise of Microsoft vs. Apple (and Google) currently. Several years ago something like 35% of the world’s Windows computers were still running Windows XP (from 2001, well before Android was around-but the figure has dropped way down since then). I think Google’s reach around the world and the economy of owning an Android phone vs. an Apple device gives it a combination that makes it tough for Apple as a world company in the long run.
Chromebooks are also something that’s helping the ascendancy of Google. Google, because of the inexpensiveness and reliability of Chromebooks, the ease of maintaining them and keeping them in sync for classroom operations is supposedly killing Apple (which used to be the darling of education) and Microsoft (new purchases in education are supposed to be something like 60% Chromebooks, 20% Microsoft, 20% Apple). Microsoft, because of the openess of Android, is leaning heavily in Google’s direction (the Your Phone app, etc., the switch to a Chromium-based browser, the supposed Chromebook competitor in Windows Lite coming soon) whereas Apple doesn’t welcome heavy deep tie-ins to iOS.
I think Google has a lot going for it that’s going to lead to “world domination.” (until HuaWei gets tired of the U.S. messing with it and comes out with an even better mobile OS that works with its even better 5G technology-just kidding here). Google essentially has the problem of the multi-armed bandit that I’m learning about in an online course. The bandit’s played a few slot machines in the casino and some of them have paid off well. It has limited resources. Does it just keep playing the ones that have been paying off better than others, hoping for even bigger hits (exploitation) or will it be trapped in a local minimum if it does so and would it be better to invest some resources looking for other slot machines that potentially pay off even better (exploration). The multi-armed bandit paradigm/paradox, which fuels itself on maximum likelihood estimates is supposedly something all big entities face, limited resources, lots of projects, some of which might already be paying off. Where do you put your money to get the biggest overall payoff down the road? As soon as Google gets its quantum computing up and running, it will have sufficient computing resources to figure it all out for its sprawling discombobulated mess of an empire (<<<just kidding! at least on the quantum computing being the answer to Google’s problems>>>). But maybe the essence of Google is it hasn’t mastered the multi-armed bandit paradigm and MLE?! It’s just blowing its money in the casino gambling away in haphazard fashion, turned on by the wrong slot machines?!
Gary, Google doesn’t even take care of its own devices, so it’s not setting a very good example for the OEMs.
IMO, Google could have / should have done many things differently.
First, Google should not have made it an option to use Treble on all devices when Android 8 was released. That would have made it easier to keep all devices with Android 8 current.
Second, Google should have given the OEMs the option of either maintaining the currency of their devices for a reasonable duration, such 4-5 years or the HAL code would go into AOSP, enabling the devices to use vanilla Android.
I recall you worked for Microsoft. If so, you know Microsoft has many clauses in their licensing agreements with OEMs. If Microsoft can take such measures, so can Google.
Android fragmentation is a monster that was created by Google, due to its lack of foresight. It’s going to be a very long time before ASHA is widely available due to the multitude of bad decisions made by Google.
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Daryl, I retired almost 20 years ago and that was long before Google phones were ever thought about. When I retired I was thoroughly burned out and I haven’t touched a single line of code since. 
When Microsoft started screwing up their Windows Phone and my broker stopped writing software for it, I looked elsewhere. I made the decision to go with Android. I’ve owned most of the Android devices that Google has introduced. The only one I was disappointed in was the 2 XL and that was with the lousy screen. They learned a lesson there and with the 3 XL they started using Samsung OLED screens. I’ve never had a problem with apps running on any of my Google devices. I’m currently using a Pixel 3 XL. The screen is gorgeous and my apps run with no problems. I’ve talked with Santa and he’s agreed to put a 4 XL in my Christmas stocking! 
Since I chose Google devices running stock Android, I’ve not been exposed to any fragmentation problems. The day any updates are released, my phone is immediately updated. I always felt that fragmentation was due to manufacturers that made lots of changes to stock Android thus creating their own problems. When Android was updated, they had to re-engineer to make everything work again. This takes time and often they don’t update at all. That’s why I use Google Pixels, I don’t need those problems.
Quite frankly Project Treble and fragmentation had nothing to do with my own use of Google’s stock Android so I paid no attention to it. The bottom line is that I will buy only Google Pixel phones running stock Android thus leaving me, so far, problem free. If that ever changes, I reserve the right to do whatever I want.
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Pixel 4 and 4xl will have streaming on board. How to track the availability of this option from other manufacturers? In September - October, several interesting models were released. But not a single mention of ASHA in press releases.
Relative to Android 10 and being sure to apprise folks that not every phone maker may supply ASHA as part of Android 10, it’s interesting to see how ReSound’s compatibility info on direct Android streaming has changed in just a week or two. Rather than having the Android 10 bit almost as a footnote to the whole page on Apple and Android compatibility, the following information is now at the top of the ANDROID column on the right and they’re very upfront about telling folks that a phone maker has to supply ASHA in its flavor of Android 10 - but NO phone makers listed yet, not even Google Pixel 4/4 XL - and that event is only about 3 weeks away!
Audio streaming on Android
Direct stereo streaming from Android is available for the following ReSound hearing aids:
Note: Requires minimum Android 10, and Android Streaming to Hearing aids has been enabled by the phone manufacturer.
For users with older Android versions than Android 10 or other ReSound hearing aids, audio can be streamed by using the Resound Phone Clip+ which allows you to connect your ReSound hearing aids to any mobile phone with Bluetooth® wireless connectivity.
Google Pixels DO have Android 10 even if ReSound doesn’t say so on their page. Other makers will probably be slow to do their updates as they usually don’t run stock Android and have to do modifications to make their “flavor” of Android work.
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With everything else that’s leaked about the Pixel 4/4 XL, I don’t see why ReSound can’t spill the beans and list the Pixel 4 (and the 3’s) - but maybe by listing only the Pixels, ReSound does not want to convey the impression that ASHA is only supported on a Google phone and otherwise not very widely supported (yet) and is waiting for other manufacturers like Samsung to officially come on board before listing specific phones? Otherwise, you’d have just a few measly phones in the Android column and scads in the iPhone column.
Bingo!
And of course even after tons have leaked about the Pixel 4/4XL, nothing is definite until it is actually released.
Just get Marvels or KS9’s and be done with all this waiting and uncertainty of whether one phone or another will get the feature. Most modern phones are going to have open bluetooth implementations. Seems to me then that I would still rather open solutions than special solutions like mfi, mfa, asha.
TraderGary has Marvels so he doesn’t need to care. His stuff works.
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If you’ve never tried MFi, don’t be so quick to think “open solutions” are better. Having used both, I can tell you that MFi is more seamless and works better and more reliably than BT Classic. If I had a choice of MFi or ASHA over BT Classic, I would take them every time.
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I’ve never used any Apple devices, so I cannot make any comparisons. I trust you when you say MFi works well for you. There certainly are a lot of folks that use MFi.
The only thing I can relate is my own experience with Bluetooth Classic. Of course I’ve used Bluetooth wireless for years with Bluetooth wireless keyboards and mice. I’ve also used Bluetooth Wireless speakers as many have. All have worked reliably.
Sony uses Bluetooth Classic with their top end Bluetooth Wireless headphones and they are widely accepted as having industry leading sound quality. I own them and I can vouch for that. And, of course, they are reliable.
I now have over 9 months of experience with Marvel M90-R’s. I’m an accomplished classical pianist (I majored in piano and violin performance in college) with lots of experience playing my concert grand piano and listening to lots of live classical music, including major symphony orchestras. For me the sound of my Marvels streaming music from my Primephonic lossless CD quality subscription rivals the sound of my high end headphones. It’s a prime reason I love my Marvels. I stream music from my Primephonic subscription for several hours every day. For 9 months now Bluetooth Classic with my Marvels has been reliable and the sound is exquisite.
That’s my own personal experience for whatever that’s worth.
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I imagine one’s strategy might depend on whether one is due for a new phone upgrade before a new HA upgrade. I got my Quattro’s before the Marvels came out and my phone is over a year older than my Quattro’s. And with 5G coming along and maturing in the next few years, I’m likely to get a new phone before new HA’s. So it’s natural to want to know if the new phone I get will have ASHA or maybe I don’t like any of the Android offerings and will switch to Apple depending what’s going on between the two OS’s. So just getting Marvels might be a great idea for many reasons but things like the reported outdoor difficulty in between-ear communication and the cost of Roger accessories might be turn offs for some, might not be a problem for others.
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Anybody asked Samsung what their plans with ASHA are? I asked Nokia and they were clueless. I also asked OnePlus (who tend to be pretty prompt with Android version updates (they’ve already got 10 on some of their phones) and they had no info.
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I asked the Samsung representative in my country. The answer is complete uncertainty.
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Phonak’s system isn’t all it is made out to be. My recent experience with Marvels has been somewhat disappointing. First, it doesn’t pair with just anything Bluetooth. I have been going around trying to pair my Marvels with various things with not much success. My TV streamer that worked with my Compilot won’t pair, much to my dismay. I will have to buy a special model made for Marvels for that. And streaming has significant latency. The only way to get around that is, yet again, to buy the special Phonak accessory. The app uses BLE, which my phone does not do well. I have given up on using the app. MFi works well because Apple controls every aspect of it. Android and Bluetooth is a hodge podge, and in my opinion, we are lucky if it works at all. Someone made the comment that the major HA makers should jointly develop a protocol for hearing aid communication and all use it. I heartily agree.
And now we don’t have to take off our shoe to make a phone call!
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