#41

I’d agree that most hearing aid users that value streaming use Apple. However, I think there are a LOT of high end Android Users (predominantly Samsung) who also want direct streaming. I’d agree with focusandadmit that most users aren’t interested in the details of how things work, they just want them to work. Unfortunately that often means they don’t function as the user thinks they should.

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#42

As I wrote in my comparison of iPhone and Android phone, IMO, fragmentation THE biggest problem with Android. Google has done a terrible job of managing the Android installed base compared to Apple. According to https://www.driveaccord.net/attachments/a09-010-pdf.389857/, 83% of the Apple installed base is on 12.x. That’s incredible. Contrast that to Android.

You’re right that if you want releases right away, Google is the only choice, but at this stage, if I was going to spend top money for a flagship phone, I would not spent it with Google. Their customer support is terrible. (I say this as a Nexus user of two of their phones, one of which was so bad there was a class action.) Whatever you want to say about Apple, their customer support is excellent. It’s as good as Google’s customer support is bad.

#43

Of course! :blush: Apple has absolute and total control of their walled garden! You should expect nothing less. Android is the exact opposite and has a totally open system with your choice of manufacturers. Some are good and some are abysmally bad. Updates and support are totally up to the manufacturer or ISP. That’s why I will only buy a Google Pixel.

My experience with Google support has been limited. The only experience I’ve had was with a Pixel that stopped working and Google shipped me a replacement overnight.

#44

12.4.1 as of this morning for me…

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#45

Both Quattro’s updated to 10043.4300 at audi. Repaired/replaced left HA came back from ReSound with .4300 on it.

Edit_Update: On my trip to the audi, I learned about the importance of having both your HA’s enrolled in ReSound (remote) Assist to be able to get updates OTA from ReSound. Not sure about the exact details but somehow in repairing both my new left replacement HA and my old original right HA, the right HA got unenrolled from the ReSound Assist program. As soon as the right HA was re-enrolled by the audi in the ReSound Assist program, the Smart 3D app detected and downloaded the .4300 update for it.

Not being enrolled in the ReSound Assist program, according to my audi, probably explains why a few months ago when the .4000 firmware update came out, the right hearing got the update then but a previous left replacement HA did not. That time, the right HA was duly enrolled in the ReSound Assist program but the audi had forgotten to enroll the first left replacement HA then.

I seem to remember nothing about ReSound Assist shows up on the MyReSound tab if you’re not enrolled. But anyone having trouble getting the .4300 update for their Quattro’s might want to check that (both) their HA’s are duly enrolled. If they’re not, it’s necessary to go to your HCP to get enrolled.

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GN Resound Smart 3D app
#46

Relative to having to buy a new phone to get ASHA direct streaming, I had a further thought or two on the matter.

Now is an opportune time for MFA (ASHA) to come out with the transition to 5G in the next few years. The general wisdom now is don’t rush out to get a new phone for 5G right now because each telco’s 5G solution is now pretty unique, all the infrastructure has yet to be laid out, all the bugs yet to be worked out, etc. So there is plenty of time in the next few years before it truly pays to get a 5G phone for ASHA to be integrated into phones from major manufacturers. Most users upgrade their phones, too, every 2 to 3 years (although the time period is lengthening with the run-up of premium phone prices).

The other thing is that for Phonak Marvels and Roger Direct, Roger Pens, Roger Select, one will be laying out bundles of cash. Compared to that expense, anyone willing to make that kind of outlay for a very premium hearing aid and all its wonderful accouterments, if they have that kind of cash to throw around and wanted to consider whatever other premium brand HA vs. Marvels, they are not too likely to be bothered much by spending $500 to $1000 or so for a new premium Android phone if they want ASHA streaming. If they’re an iPhone user, they already have MFI. If one wants a good bargain and good tech by shopping at Costco for KS9’s or other Costco offerings, I agree on a tight budget having to get a new phone will be a big downer but as above in the first paragraph, many phone users will have a reason with 5G coming along to get a new phone in the next few years, anyway.

A final take on the situation is that many HA users for economic reasons are going to go along with the older HA’s they already have. If one paid $5K to $7K for premium HA’s just a year or two ago, one is not too likely to ditch those for either Marvels or any ASHA-capable HA this minute. There is considerable fragmentation and lag in HA adoption, not just in Android use. So whatever the future of connectivity is, it’s going to be a slow evolution, not a land rush. There is time for lots of great Marvel improvements in universal BT connectivity and there is time for the evolution of MFA and MFI and hope someday maybe even better universal BT standards from the BT SIG (fusing MFA and MFI?!). One has to wonder if Apple is going to rest on its laurels, too, for example, and let Phonak take the iPhone advantage away from it for HA users.

The next few years should be interesting and if 5G is all that is promised, everyone will want a new phone (Apple isn’t offering a 5G phone until fall, 2020).

#47

I’m not a big fan of apple, but I’ve been using a company iPhone for a couple of years, alongside my personal Android phone, running 8.1. Your remark about apple having “absolute and total control of their walled garden” is not without justification. However, as long as you have whatever you need in the “walled garden”, it doesn’t matter if there is a wall.

The current version of iOS 12 runs on devices dating from 2013, starting with the 5S. iOS 13 will be available on devices dating from 2015, starting with the 6S. Every supported device will be able to upgrade on the release date. Contrast that with Android 10. It will be available only on a small fraction of the Android installed base, starting only with Pixel phones. If 10% of the Android installed base has Android 10 by the end of 2020, it will be a surprise. As you point out, Pixel phones get the latest version of Android first, but Google will only commit to updating your Pixel until October 2020. After that, too bad, so sad.

Regarding support, Google screwed over their Nexus 5, 5X and 6P customers with crap phones that prematurely died of an infinite boot loop. There was a class action for some of them, but not all customers were included, so they ended up throwing their phones in trash cans. There are also class actions against Pixels for the microphones and there were display issues on Pixel 2s. Google charges flagship prices for Pixel phones, but they are not flagship phones.

ASHA is great, but it will take a long time before more than a few HA users will benefit from it.

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#48

I agree that one of the big pluses of iPhones is their multiyear OS updates. The iPhone XR’s price has been lowered since the new ones have come out. Seems like a pretty good multiyear investment.

#49

Being an Android and Microsoft Windows user, I too am not an Apple fan. :sunglasses:

Just a quick one, you mentioned that my Pixel will only get updates until October 2020. For my Pixel 3 XL, that isn’t true. Pixel phones get updates for at least 3 years from when the device first becomes available on the Google Store. Even the original Pixel, released in October 2016, gets the Android 10 update. My Pixel 3 XL will no longer get updates after October 2021. Only 3 years of updates could be sad for some but it’s irrelevant for me as I usually update my phone every year. In October the new Pixel 4 XL will be released and from what I read about it, I’ll be getting one. :blush:

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#50

I’m also an android and Microsoft Windows user and have never liked apple. (Microsoft with one botched Windows update after another is becoming as difficult to like as Google.) I would never have tried an iPhone, except it was provided to me by the company I work for.

I thought you had a Pixel 2. It’s great that you can afford to replace your phone every year, but most people can’t afford this luxury. I keep my phones in a case and they are usually in perfect condition after three or more years. Why throw away a perfectly good phone after two or three years, except because the vendor won’t keep it up to date?

#51

When Microsoft first opted to force everyone to update whether they wanted to or not, I thought it might be a good idea. In practice it wasn’t for too many reasons that would take too many paragraphs to describe. I won’t even start on why Windows 8 was a bad idea. Then when they started this ridiculous cycle of several upgrades a year instead of upgrading every few years as in the past, the botched updates started happening. It was just too much, too soon, without enough testing. Here’s hoping they’ve learned enough from the past to do better in the future.

Yes, I had a Pixel 2 XL. When the Pixel 3 XL was introduced I switched. I also got an identical Pixel 3 XL for my wife at the same time. She’s not technical at all but she loves it. We also both got Phonak Marvel M90-R’s, our first HA’s, at the same time when they came out. I’m busy trying to spend as much of the kid’s inheritance as I can with what time I have left! :blush:

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#52

Amen! (cough, cough). Meanwhile, back with firmware update .4300 for the ReSound’s that theoretically brings me direct streaming capability if only I had an Android phone that could support it (I may very well run out and get a Google Pixel 4 XL based on TraderGary’s recommendation ! ), I’ve noted a couple of quaint things with my obsolete Samsung Galaxy Note 8 running Android Pie, doomed never to get direct ASHA streaming, apparently.

My hearing aids now appear as “GN” devices in the list of BT devices along with Hearing Aid Phone (the Phone Clip+ streamer). A lot of good that does me as when one investigates the GN BT properties, the only thing available is to unpair, no phone, no audio, connection control, etc. But! I can now use the two GN devices with the BT Smart Lock feature to automatically unlock my phone screen by their proximity to my phone (and the requirement to manually enter a PIN on cold boot of the phone prevents someone from stealing phone and hearing aids to access my phone). Somehow, with the HA’s in my ears, I feel safer bestowing the Smart (un)Lock capability on them than on the more portable and separate from me PC+ “Hearing Aid Phone.”

The other curiosity of less than earth-shaking value is that it seems with the .4300 firmware update that the distance my phone can communicate with my Quattro’s in their charging case has tremendously increased. Just so I don’t have to do a "Where’d I leave the case this time?!, I always charge my HA’s in the same spot of the house. Before the .4300 firmware update, the best I could tell with my phone how charging was going was from about 20 ft away through one interior sheetrock wall. Now the phone can easily pick up the HA’s in the charging case from about 40 ft away through 2 sheetrock walls although it’s possible that the 2.4 GHz radiation is doing an end-run around one of the interior walls. Although my left HA was just replaced/refurbished by ReSound, I don’t think any of the hardware involved has been changed. Only the Smart 3D phone app and the HA firmware have changed recently and instead of one HA with .3700 firmware, the other with .4000, both now have .4300. Maybe just finally managing to run the same firmware for both HA’s is what makes things seem “more better” ?! When I’m closer to my HA’s with my phone, it also seems that the BT on the phone recognizes and connects with the HA’s a bit faster than it did before although this could just be some improvement in the ReSound Smart 3D app, which if you read the Google Play reviews, has left a lot to be desired in terms of stability and reliability of its connectivity in the past, according to some reviewers.

#53

Interesting I thought at first the better long distance “reception” was related to one of the advanced BT5 features, but I checked and ASHA does not use the “Coded” feature which doubles the transmission distance. It does the use the feature that doubles the bandwidth of LE transmissions.
So, no clue what might be going on.

#54

I’ve also never checked reception from that further spot before so maybe I’m just lucky and have found a way to bounce the signal the extra distance. More careful investigation is needed! It also seems that I might need to connect to my HA’s through the Smart 3D app for Smart (un)Lock to work reliably. But once it’s “primed,” it works great and turning off the HA’s makes automatic unlocking go away. More research needed there to figure out why it doesn’t always work if I just turn on BT on the phone and have the HA’s on.

#55

It does seem like I’m getting extra communication distance between phone and HA’s after getting both HA’s upgraded to the .4300 version of the Quattro firmware. From another ~40 ft away location through an interior sheetrock wall or two, both HA’s connect with the phone as shown by the Find My Phone applet under My ReSound that meters the BT signal strength of each HA to the phone. Both HA’s register at least a 5 to 10 mm signal above zero. The funny thing, too, is that they unlock my phone via Smart (un)Lock from that distance, too! It would be nice if ReSound required quite a bit more proximity for the HA BT signal to unlock one’s phone. Have no idea what’s going on with apparent improved BT communication distance and reliability but I’m happy to live with the results!

#56

Perhaps the explanation of my apparent increased connectivity range (and faster connection) is that according to the ReSound compatibility page, ReSound’s version of ASHA requires Android 10 and BT 5.0. https://www.resound.com/en/help/compatibility (see very bottom of page)

BT 5.0 is faster and has longer range than BT 4.2. The Samsung Galaxy Note 8, although it’s not currently destined to get Android 10, supports BT 5.0. So if my Quattro’s and my Note 8 are now communicating via BT 5.0 vs. BT 4.2 before the .4300 Quattro firmware update, that would explain my tentative casual observations about connectivity. bluetooth 5.0 vs 4.2-Difference between bluetooth 5.0 and 4.2

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#57

That was my initial thought, but your Galaxy Note 8 doesn’t (at least didn’t) support the long range feature of BT LE. The article I’ve cited a couple of times has a link that lets you check your phone for the optional BT 5 features.

#58

Yeah, I see that I actually read your OP in another thread and gave you a Thumbs Up! but since that was over 19 days ago and you didn’t bring it up in this thread, I forgot and didn’t make the connection.

I downloaded the Nordic Semiconductor nRF Connect for Mobile app from Google Play that scans for and reveals characteristics of BLE devices. It also has a DEVICE information page for the host device (my Galaxy Note 8). Sure enough, it says that my Galaxy Note 8, now running Android Pie, does not support PHY Coded (longer range) but it does support PHY 2M (higher speed). Interestingly, the nRF app says that the Quattro’s at a hardware level are Bluetooth Core 4.1 devices.

I wonder if the nRF app could just be reading the BT MAC addresses and looking stuff up in a database and not actually querying device characteristics by protocol and perhaps missing any effect of subsequent firmware or software updates to a device?? - probably an answer in nRF app specifications but am too lazy to look it up just right now… (later) - seems like from watching developer video on Google Play that service characteristics are determined by discovery, not database lookup! Cool!

Since my Quattro’s have been presumably been upgraded to be BT 5.0 capable by a firmware update, it’s not clear what’s changed but as cited in the XDA article that you reference in your post Bluetooth 5 features, the only mandatory BT 5.0 feature is PHY 1M, which is also in BT 4.2. PHY 2M is just a recommendation, not a requirement, in the ASHA standard, so when ReSound is saying BT 5.0 is required for their implementation of ASHA, it’s a mystery as to what really is absolutely required for ASHA relative to BLE standards…

“It is strongly recommended that the central and peripheral support 2MB PHY as specified in the BT 5.0 specification.” (maybe ReSound is making PHY 2M effectively a requirement, not optional?! - quote is from 1st para after the System Requirement list for ASHA: Hearing Aid Audio Support Using Bluetooth LE

Just for laughs, I think I’ll go outdoors and test transmission range with a clear line of sight. Indoors with the possibility of reflections and variable barriers across walls is an iffy testing proposition.

Edit_Update: I had asked the ReSound Smart 3D app support folks about any changes in the 3D app or the firmware that might make the BLE connection between phone and HA’s more reliable or longer distance and just got the following terse (but helpful) e-mail reply:

Currently we are working on a solution, so we can get more and faster feedback from users of our apps.

Both the app update and the firmware update did contain some corrections which make the connection more stable. One of them are the pairing into Bluetooth settings, as you have noticed.

Maybe a (much) more stable connection just makes for a longer distance connection (better signal-to-noise ratio?).

#59

You might be onto something with the idea that nRF is looking stuff up in a database. I know when I query my Nokia, it gives me a different version of the Android update than what actually exists on the phone. It’s Nokia phone specific, but nRF says I’m on version “i” and my phone actually says version “h”

I find the ASHA standards confusing regarding BT version confusing to. It starts out saying something about BT Core Specification Version 5 and then later says BT 4.2 is the minimum.

Then there’s the fact that the Pixel 2 is not supported and it has Android 10 and BT5.

I’d love a lay level explanation of why this is so complicated.

#60

Bluetooth is a riddle wrapped up in an enigma wrapped up in a standards committee full of people with disparate goals and a strong spirit of non-cooperation.

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