GN Hearing first to support direct Android streaming using ASHA

Yeah, but obviously if your “old” phone is not on the list to begin with, you don’t even have to worry about whether it’s going to get ASHA, too. The point was “Who’s left out of getting Android 10 on their phones?” - 8 series devices aren’t on the list was my comment/point of view.

Having a phone with Android 10 is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for direct streaming to your HA’s. :slightly_smiling_face:

And just to be even clearer, even if you have a phone with Android 10 and ASHA, e.g., Pixel 4, you’re not going to get direct streaming unless the HA OEM has either built the ASHA protocol into your HA’s or put it there with a firmware update (sorry I didn’t mention that part either in my post, either!) :smile:

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Concerning auto-update from correspondence with Resound :

The firmware update will be pushed via the app in batches, and should end up at you as a push message, if you have activated Remote Hearing aid software updates.

  • Best regards*
    App Support

Can I do this on my own If I have a Noahlink and Smart Fit 1.5 ? (I have both) or still need online registration on the site Resound

@praded2007

Unless you’re duly registered as a ReSound provider with ReSound, you won’t be able to activate ReSound Assist. How much I forget. Not being able to update for not having the HA registered not only happened for my most recent left HA repair/replacement but it also happened when my original left HA was replaced back in March, 2019. My problems connecting to ReSound Assist were described in the following post (which I’d completely forgotten about): Remote Assist - Smart 3D App Embroglio With Quattro's

The reply from the very helpful folks at ReSound app support is below:

Do you know if the hearing care professional did connect both the hearing aids to the fitting software and updated the ReSound Assist setting after the right hearing aid had been at repair?

For me it sounds like an conflict between which data we have in Cloud for your hearing aids and which data your phone/app sees.

I therefore recommend to visit the hearing care professional and have them to update your consent for the ReSound Assist.

Best regards

App Support

In a second follow-up post to the one referenced above at the beginning of April, 2019, apparently from talking to my audi I learned that the HA’s had to be connected to the Noahlink Wireless of a registered provider in order to have the serial numbers of the HA’s that you want to be elgible for OTA updates registered in the GN cloud: Remote Assist - Smart 3D App Embroglio With Quattro's

I guess the simplest explanation of these restraints is that ReSound wants to be able to collect OTA data on how you use your HA’s and without duly registering your HA’s with the ReSound cloud and consenting on a form the HCP provides, they don’t enable the OTA connection. I can see at the opposite extreme if someone were never educated by their HCP on the ReSound Assist connection, a firmware update just showed up unexpectedly someday, the person had no idea what it was or how to apply the firmware from never hearing or thinking about the prospect before and bricked their HA’s in the process, the frustrated HA users might jump on ReSound’s back saying that they never knew about or consented to such stuff, etc.

Edit_Update: Actually the thought occurred to me later that the official registration through a provider might be an effort to thwart a black market in HA’s reported as lost. Under warranty conditions for the first three years, one is entitled to a no-questions-asked replacement at a nominal fee ONCE for each ear for a HA lost or damaged. Elsewhere on the forum it has been mentioned that there is some small fraction of dishonest people who report a lost hearing aid and request a replacement. They then turn around and sell the original HA that they never really lost. If only HA’s that are duly registered can be updated and it has to be done through ReSound and a provider ReSound approves of, that would tend to squelch a black market dealing in “lost” HA’s because they can’t receive firmware updates. It’s not a very big impediment to reselling “lost” HA’s but if a provider has to be connected to ReSound’s cloud database to register for firmware updates, it’s an incentive for a provider (and ReSound) to discover funny business about an HA.

Am not suggesting that any particular person working with DIY HA’s acquired through a personal sale has done this - just speculating why ReSound makes people go to a provider to get OTA firmware updates.

Granted, but even if you’d a last generation Pixel 2XL and got Android 10 you’d still have been out of luck. Owners of various versions of Pixels had 50% support rate for ASHA. Pixel and Pixel 2 versions not supported. All Pixel 3 variants supported. Only other major phone manufacturer that has Android 10 at this point is OnePlus. Have no idea if they support ASHA. I wouldn’t bet on it.

Am I correct that Resound won’t release their update on their hearing aids until sometime next month? Their marketing department sure gave a long lead time on their announcement!

I bought Resund in America. Bought there, because neither in Europe nor in my country half a year ago they were not and still are not.
I have a Noanlink, SmartFit v.1.5 and I myself set up my “piano”. But updating of my HA firmware is impossible without the online registration of the HA. (GN Online Services)
I called up the local Resound sellers in Minsk. Before the new year 2020, they will not be able to help me with the update.
Who has any thoughts to overcome this? The answer…to come to America is not real.)))

I think that the simplest thing to say in reply is that no one should buy an expensive set of hearing aids without going to the manufacturer’s website and very carefully investigating any statements that the manufacturer makes about compatibility and function of the HA’s with any particular brand and model of smartphone. That is the only information that one should trust. HCP’s are not always up on everything they should be (my audi got wrong what the charging lights mean on the ReSound charging case, for instance).

For example, ReSound seems to put most of its emphasis on iPhone compatibility and direct streaming. Android seems like a second banana to them. On the ReSound website, they have a list of iPhones that have been tested and their compatibility status with MFI, etc. (but then Apple goes and updates the OS!). That’s the sort of thing one should be looking for on the manufacturer’s website. User reviews and claims anywhere are ancillary to that. Hopefully someday ReSound and any other OEM’s who use ASHA will have similar checked-and-approved lists for Android phones. These companies owe it to their customers to “certify” phones when they’re charging as much as $6K to $7K for a set of HA’s, especially with all the accessories.

Anyone who makes their purchase mainly based on what they’ve read on the Hearing Tracker website (a secondary source of information that is not standing by the warranty, etc.) is going about things in a rather foolish way.

So in the future if any post of mine has not included all the apparently necessary performance disclaimers about an OS or a smartphone, etc., relative to an HA, I will just link any response back to this post…:slightly_smiling_face:

BTW, not to be too snotty (:slightly_smiling_face:) but I myself did do the sort of research and thinking that I’m saying each and every person buying HA’s owes it to themselves to do. Back in August 2018, I read ReSound’s statement that ASHA would be in the Quattro’s and they would work with a FUTURE version of Android. So I said to myself, “Wait a minute! Google has already released Android Pie! What if they mean Android Q?! Could be!” So I bought my Quattro’s realizing, given Samsung’s long-standing policy of only offering its phone owners TWO Android updates, that it was highly likely my Galaxy Note 8 would not work with my Quattro’s but SOME phone running a future version of Android would. So anyone anticipating the future needs to allow for that sort of uncertainty. I did. GN Hearing and Google announce Android streaming partnership

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Hi Jim, I have the Quattro’s on 90 day trial, but I think they will be returned before the end of that period. I don’t have an iPhone,although I do have a iPad, so far I’ve found the quality of the streaming very poor. I’m unable to get the 3D app. to work on my Android 9 phone.

@Little_France I totally agree with you. If something does work for you, return it and get something that works better with the stuff you already have. The Phonak Marvels seem to have a lot of happy users - maybe that’s what you should try next?

Apologies for having continued to beat the dead horse. No criticism of you was intended. I just continue to be amazed at how long this has taken to release considering the 2018 announcement. I seem to have been mistaken–Resound has officially released the update (and some subsequent ones) that allows direct streaming with Pixel 3 variants and presumably Pixel 4.

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Thanks but I did realize that all along. I was just protesting that one should be able to mention Android 10 for some reason (like here’s a list of Samsung phones that supposedly will get it) without having to throw in the ASHA disclaimer and trying to find various inventive ways to make that point. I agree with you that it remains to be seen how ASHA pans out but since I bought a Phone Clip+ the day I bought my Quattro’s and have planned all along to keep my Galaxy Note 8 at least 3 or 4 years from August, 2017, my anticipation of possibly having MFA was only a secondary very long-range reason for getting the Quattro’s.

It is funny that Google is so slow in delivering ASHA and so poor in encouraging HA OEM’s and phone OEM’s to get it into their products. Especially when they can do something like the following (I hope it’s real - but I’m not going to hold my breath for quantum computing in HA’s - but my reaction in reading the article was “Holy Moly! Three minutes and 20 seconds vs. 10,000 years!”

Yes, interesting article. Except for the disclaimer that quantum computers are best at narrowly defined tasks (my paraphrase) I was thinking it could be a game changer for AI. Speaking of AI, this site’s AI is really annoying (as others have mentioned). It’s currently reminding me that I’ve replied to you too many times. When posting a new thread, it often gives suggestions of other threads to join that seem unrelated and when I looked for an appropriate thread to join, it asked me if I really wanted to open an older thread!

<<<just kidding!>>> At last we agree on something 100% - on series of experiences you’ve had, Me Too! Except what’s funny is that I’m not getting “You’ve replied to MDB too many times. You might consider …” just right now. Maybe an actual human (moderator?!) read your protest and shut HAL 9000 down for the moment?!

I really appreciate all you’ve written, but at first, carefully investigation of manufacturer website doesn’t save us from a mistake, from misunderstandings. At second, it is not interesting to buy HA which is out of present technologies, so it claim to be expencive. In some countries it is unreasonable expensive or not accessible at all. So, we can buy it just bypassing audiology clinic, and it provides some difficulties in use. And at third, as for me, just having up-to-date HA makes me being interested in reading about its operation (connection with devices and etc.), it gives me a forces to search for information and investigate some pretty problems (really, not-having hands free function - is not a real problem. I expect updates up to Android 10 with ASHA is not because it is must-have thing, but just something that may adorn my life :wink: ).I would never come to the world of HA-investigetion having my first HA (nera2, oticon), because i can just go to audi for changing setting, nothing else. That is about total dependence on clinic. I can say nothing bad about clinic, but prefer to have some control in my hands.

I agree. Mistakes can happen no matter what. I am just saying that trying to return HA’s one might not like is probably easier if one’s complaint is that “the manufacturer claimed it would work with my phone” as opposed to “a guy on Hearing Tracker claimed it would work with my phone.”

On your other thoughts, I think the best situation is to find a hearing care provider(HCP) that is sympathetic to one’s need or desire to DIY. The advantage of going to an HCP is for Real Ear Measurements (REM) that can make sure your fit is as good as possible. Then you can fine-tune yourself if you wish, in the best of all possible worlds.

There are comments in the forum on how DIY can mess up REM adjustments and how to compensate for that - haven’t kept up with that and I’ve also wondered if DIY potentially messes up ReSound Assist. Seems like one of my HA’s was signed up for ReSound Assist and after repairing it with my phone it wasn’t. Something to follow-up with my audi in late October.

I think DIY is a great option. I’ve done it myself (now happy with fitting and have stopped playing around). But I think most people lack the equipment, including that for REM, and the experience to do the job anywhere near as good as an HCP can do it without a lot of dedication to learning all that one should know before attempting it.

As has been mentioned before, there are a lot of steps involved when releasing new versions of Android. They involve Google, the SoC vendor, the phone vendor and the telco. This is in stark contrast to Apple, which has 100% control over the entire process. This is why you have the incredible penetration of the latest version of iOS as compared to the fragmentation of Android releases.

Google doesn’t set a very good example to the other companies that make Android phones, with regards to fragmentation. You would think as the vendor for the Nexus and Pixel phones, Google would show everyone how it’s done, but they have done a pretty pathetic job of rolling out their own technology on their own (branded) phones.

Google doesn’t have its own act together with Android phone developers, so it’s not reasonable to expect Google has any influence over HA manufacturers.

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Well Google must be doing something right though. Android has 85.9% of the total device market share and Apple is a distant second with only 14%.

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The selling of streaming devices is still an extra source of revenue for HA manufacturers. There has not been any real change in them other than Phonak Marvel’s platform which made them redundant. I find it also strange that Pie did not have any assistive hearing aid settings as they
did in Nougat.

Take a look at the android dashboard (Distribution dashboard  |  Android Developers). Android 7, aka Nougat, was released in August 2016. Android 7.1 was released in December 2016. This means that approximately 50% of the android installed base is from August 2016 or earlier. 50%!!! Only approximately 10% of the installed base is running Android 9, aka Pie. Phones that aren’t running Pie will never get updated. Therefore, 90% of the installed base is literally dead in the water. Android may have over 85% of the market, but the vast majority of those devices will not ever receive an update.

Contrast that to Apple, where every device is virtually guaranteed to get several years of updates. iOS 13 was just released and the phones that aren’t included in the update are from 2013 and 2014.

Google should be ashamed of this deplorable situation, but clearly by its actions, it’s not. Google doesn’t support its own devices half as well as Apple.

But Daryl, the only Android devices that are actually under Google’s control are their own Pixel devices and they are the first to get updated and automatically at that. How can Google control what the other independent manufacturers do?

I still love @MDB’s line that making predictions is hard, especially when it comes to the future.

I agree with much of what you have to say, Daryl, but I think some of the figures are illusory.

With HA’s and Android, when we’re talking about Android fragmentation, we’re talking WHOLE WORLD figures. I wonder what the Android picture looks like just for the well-off countries? And with HA’s, we’re probably talking mostly about the well-off countries, not the same distribution as for Android world-wide.

The other thing about fragmentation is people like me are contributing to the appearance of fragmentation but in actuality we’re still living mostly in the now and the future, not the past. I can count four Android “devices” that I own. And just like you, I don’t trash my older devices. I keep them around, turn them on to charge them, update them at least once every other month or so. So I’m contributing a Galaxy Nexus from 2011, a Nexus 7 tablet from 2012, and a “phone device” run under a Blue Stacks emulator on my PC from the vicinity of 2012 to 2013, all of which are running Android 5 or earlier. But I only really use my Galaxy Note 8, running Android Pie(v.9). So some fraction of the fragmentation may result from folks like me who still keep their old devices hanging around, and again, to see what’s going on relative to countries HA OEM’s are focused on, it would be great to restrict Android analysis to regions where HA’s have a relatively high penetration rate into the population.

Fragmentation does not keep you from being dominant in your sphere of influence. Look at the penetration in enterprise of Microsoft vs. Apple (and Google) currently. Several years ago something like 35% of the world’s Windows computers were still running Windows XP (from 2001, well before Android was around-but the figure has dropped way down since then). I think Google’s reach around the world and the economy of owning an Android phone vs. an Apple device gives it a combination that makes it tough for Apple as a world company in the long run.

Chromebooks are also something that’s helping the ascendancy of Google. Google, because of the inexpensiveness and reliability of Chromebooks, the ease of maintaining them and keeping them in sync for classroom operations is supposedly killing Apple (which used to be the darling of education) and Microsoft (new purchases in education are supposed to be something like 60% Chromebooks, 20% Microsoft, 20% Apple). Microsoft, because of the openess of Android, is leaning heavily in Google’s direction (the Your Phone app, etc., the switch to a Chromium-based browser, the supposed Chromebook competitor in Windows Lite coming soon) whereas Apple doesn’t welcome heavy deep tie-ins to iOS.

I think Google has a lot going for it that’s going to lead to “world domination.” (until HuaWei gets tired of the U.S. messing with it and comes out with an even better mobile OS that works with its even better 5G technology-just kidding here). Google essentially has the problem of the multi-armed bandit that I’m learning about in an online course. The bandit’s played a few slot machines in the casino and some of them have paid off well. It has limited resources. Does it just keep playing the ones that have been paying off better than others, hoping for even bigger hits (exploitation) or will it be trapped in a local minimum if it does so and would it be better to invest some resources looking for other slot machines that potentially pay off even better (exploration). The multi-armed bandit paradigm/paradox, which fuels itself on maximum likelihood estimates is supposedly something all big entities face, limited resources, lots of projects, some of which might already be paying off. Where do you put your money to get the biggest overall payoff down the road? As soon as Google gets its quantum computing up and running, it will have sufficient computing resources to figure it all out for its sprawling discombobulated mess of an empire (<<<just kidding! at least on the quantum computing being the answer to Google’s problems>>>). But maybe the essence of Google is it hasn’t mastered the multi-armed bandit paradigm and MLE?! It’s just blowing its money in the casino gambling away in haphazard fashion, turned on by the wrong slot machines?!