Thank you one and all I am getting some really good thoughts to bring up with my Audi when I get my aids.
@Volusiano At the moment I only have the default P1 program and P2 with speech rescue.
I got my Audi to put noise compression to ‘high’ as loud and sudden sounds were making me jump and quite uncomfortable! Much better now!
I might ask about the music program when I next see my audiologist then Might as well give it a try! I haven’t yet tried Speech in Noise and Comfort, but I don’t think I’ll hear much difference as P1 is really good, and to be fair I don’t want to keep changing programs. I just want to mainly have one program and get on with my day and for it to adapt to pretty much every situation, which it has so far. Just a bit odd when I’m trying to hear in the car while I am driving but I think it is my brain still adapting as well as the noise compression doing its job.
I use the Comfort Program in the car. It reduces the overall loud road noise and allows speech to adjust / remain the same as P1. This is my understanding of Audi’s explanation. Audi assured me it was safe to drive in this Comfort Program as I wanted to still hear emergency vehicles, horns honking, etc. It is different than reducing the volume in P1, which lowers all the sounds. I realize I actually hear the ambulances sooner now. Before, I saw the lights before I heard the sirens.
I have added the comfort program to my list to talk over with my audi.
I’ll ask my audi to add that program for me thank you.
The built-in Comfort program has a -1.5dB noise reduction setting for Simple Listening environment (out of -3dB max) and -7.5dB noise reduction setting for Complex Listening environment. I don’t know what your P1 noise reduction level is set to, but if it’s the max -3dB for Simple and -9dB for Complex, then the Comfort program actually does have less noise reduction, not more, compared to P1.
So I don’t think the road noise sounding less loud in Comfort can be attributed to better noise reduction because the NR values there is set only to medium. The road noise being less loud is simply because of the lower volume in Comfort as set in the Fine Tuning section.
In theory, while the slight volume decrease in Comfort takes away a little bit of the road noise, it also takes away a little bit of the speech and other sounds like emergency vehicles. BUT you’re less likely to notice the slight decrease in speech or emergency vehicles volume as you do with the droning road noise because the speech and emergency vehicle sounds are more discrete and not droning on like the road noise, so they’re bound to be noticed whenever they happen and their slight volume decreased is not noticed as much. Meanwhile, the slight decrease in the droning of the road noise is more noticeable by you because it’s not a discrete and dynamic sound but a static sound.
Interesting. Actually, when driving yesterday I found I coped better and was able to hear my wife while driving. So I think it’s just my brain adjusting. My P1 default is set to the high noise compression setting. Over time, the car will only get better. Rather not change programs every time I get in the car to drive so it’s a good sign.
I wore my OPNs for fifteen hours yesterday. For most of the day, I was at a veterinary conference in London, sitting in four lectures and walking around a very noisy exhibition hall speaking to many people. For the first time in lectures, I didn’t get tired as didn’t have to lip read to understand what they were saying and actually could pin point where people were when they asked questions!
Also could hear what the train driver was mostly saying too. And the McDonald’s drive in!
I’m a first time HA user and looking forward to better hearing! I’ve been reading post here since I decided my hearing needed some help. I thought I could hear pretty good even though I had some high frequency loss. I was shocked to see the audiogram and word recognition score. Yep, I don’t always hear what my wife says!
The audiologist told me I needed a mid or high end unit to correct my problem confirming what I was told by an online audiologist. She recommended OPN 2s to improve the high frequency hearing, darn I had wanted the Resound aids! I asked why she recommended the OPN she went on about hearing all the noise like coming from music and being able to hear all the different sounds and process the sounds. Great, I hear all the sounds now, I don’t think I miss flutes, I miss things like high frequency bird, beeper, and soft voice sounds.
So, after reading much of your past and present OPN posts I now have a much better understanding of how these aids will help me hear better, thanks! I’m ordering them next week from my local audiologist and purchasing from an online company.
Thanks again for your comments!
The Resound should help you hear the high frequency sounds just as well as the OPN. If you like to focus on the speech in front and don’t care much about hearing noises around you in a noisy place, you may like the Resound better. If you like to be aware of all noises around you, but still have good clarity for the speech in front of you, then the OPN may work out well for you.
If you’re big on getting the best value for the money, Costco hearing aids will probably win over high end HAs hands down in terms of value for the money, and they’re excellent HAs as well.
Good stuff here. I’m seeing my audiologist in the morning tomorrow and I’ll request some additional programs since I have two slots open.
My OPN1 HAs are amazing. Yesterday I was in the back seat (jump seat) of a pickup truck with two friends talking over a loud stereo in the front. I was understanding near to %100!!!
Initially my audi recommended OPN3… I went with the OPN1
I am hoping the aids will allow me to hear all noise and boost the high frequency sounds. Presently I can hear in noisy environments when there are one on one or small group conversation, I no longer have to deal with large group situations. What I’m missing are words in sentences in quiet conversation. Your explanation to Bluejay as to why the OPN aids may not be working for him helped me understand what the audiologists told me about the OPN aids. My Audiogram seems much like yours, so I’m hoping they will do as well for me as they do for you! I’m fortunate to still have low and mid range frequency. My audiologists said she would be amplifieing the high frequency range, however, will also have to add bass other wise the sound would be tinny sounding. I contacted Costco, however, they are one and a half hours away on a good day. I live in western North Carolina with twisty two lane mountain roads. I purchased my aids online and the local audiologists will do all the fitting and post purchase followup. She told me that I was saving $1,600 doing the deal. If that’s the case, there sure is a bunch of markup with aids. Thanks again!
It’s more accurate to say that ReSound gives you a choice of both. You can choose to hear all around, or to focus on speech in front. I use all-around nearly all the time, but do benefit from directional focus in some circumstances. Here is ReSound’s explanation of their solution for all-around hearing:
Yes, I would even say that ALL hearing aids can provide you with an all around hearing option, not just the Resound. Even if it’s not the music mode, I’m sure they all have a mode that’s not a beam forming directional mode.
Note that I never said that the Resound does not have an all around option for you to choose from. I only said that in a noisy place, many people like to switch to a program that has a focus on the speech in front by blocking out the noises around them. And for those people, HAs like the Resound will give them that beam forming directionality option to focus on the front speech.
Meanwhile, the OPN, although having a directionality setting option, this setting does not give them a strong focus on the front speech by blocking out surrounding sound. So that option doesn’t really exist and they still will hear most sounds around them, whether they’re in this directionality setting or not.
But the difference is that even though the OPN user hears most sounds around them, they do get extra assistance from the OPN to have a cleaner speech. So the traditional HAs generally helps with speech in front focus by blocking out surrounding noise. The OPN helps with speech in front focus not by blocking out surrounding noise, but by doing something extra in a different way (via a noise model) to help clean up the speech in front. The focusing part (and tuning out the noise) actually needs to be done by the OPN user’s brain.
Everyone again thank you for all of this wonderful information. This is so much better information than I could ever get from reading dry research data.
My LiNX 3D’s did this, and my Quattros do it.
That’s great to hear that they’re doing it. Can you explain how this extra assistance is being done by the Resounds HAs? Or at least point us to some white paper or presentation that explains it in more details? I’d love to learn more about new technologies that HA mfgs come up with to help improve speech clarity. Thanks.
Haven’t searched to see how ReSound claims to do it but in the Smart 3D app for the All-Around program, there are two quick settings tweaks - a button for Noise Filter and a button for Speech Clarity. Not carefully analyzing all program settings (I don’t have the DIY stuff to see all), in the app, the Equalizer is set at the lowest level for bass, mid-tones, and treble for the Noise Filter quick setting whereas for Speech Clarity, bass is cranked up a little, mid-tones considerably, and treble even more. Both noise and wind filters are in effect for the Speech Clarity setting also. The noise filter about as much for the Noise Filter quick setting and Wind Noise reduction at 100%. Speech Clarity is also offered in the Outdoor program as a Quick Setting whereas Speech Focus (binaural beam formation) is offered in the Restaurant program with similar equalizer, Noise, and Wind Noise settings as for All-Around but you get to slide how wide or narrow a microphone focus you want in front of you (and with open domes, you still hear a lot to the side, anyway). Parenthetically, of all three programs when walking outdoors listening to a podcast where some noise is still leaking through my ear muffs and I’ve shut off my HA mic’s to listen to streaming only, the Outdoor program, for whatever reason makes speech clearest to me but at times it’s so loud in speech frequencies it almost hurts my ears (if I switch between programs with equal volume settings, the All-Around will sound too soft, even just for streaming only, with the speech sound more muffled by leaking noise).
Not to beat the Multi-Mic drum to death, but it’s such fantastic accessory, it puts all worries about how the HA’s themselves hear stuff aside for the noisy environment situations that I want to get the most out of my HA stuff. If I had more money to burn, I’d emulate efigalaxie and get the Phonak Roger accessories to go with my Multi-Mic and be ready to conquer the world in noisy environments from what others have said. Having viewed Dr. Cliff’s video on Speech in Noise and tried accessories myself, I agree with his video take-home lesson that there is only so far that HA’s alone can take you for dealing with noisy environments. (sorry if this is getting off-topic)
Equalization of the frequencies for speech clarity and noise reduction is something I haven’t heard about much until now. I wonder how effective it is to clarify speech if the noise is in the same selected frequency ranges that get amplified for speech clarity. The spectrum for noise may vary quite a bit as well depending on what is considered a noise source. Even human speech, as long as it’s not the speech of interest, can also be considered noise. In which case equalization won’t be effective for that.
I think beside beam forming/varying directionality, another traditional way to achieve noise filtering is to detect steady state sounds (like road noise or fan noise, or even human babbles as long it it becomes a droning sound etc) from dynamic sounds (like speech) and reduce the amplification during the steady state sounds and restore the amplification when dynamic sounds are detected. I think just about all HA mfgs already implement this in some form or fashion.
I’m particularly interested in learning about any other approaches that HA mfgs implement as newer technologies beside the ones mentioned above. Like the noise model approach that Oticon employs in the OPN being an example.
For sure using extra accessories to zoom in on speech is a valid approach. However, it becomes a very personal choice and I’d bet that not too many people are willing to carry around accessories unless they really struggle and it’s almost the only effective way to help them achieve the clarity and signal to noise ratio they need.
Look at the professional sites for Resound, Phonak, and Signia. They each have tons of research and white papers that explain their approach and results.
The speech in noise processing for Signia and Phonak work really well. The Resound seems well-regarded also. I just don’t have any recent experience with the Resound.
11 days and counting down until I get my new hearing aids