First Post - Hearing loss question


#21

Having said this, I do detect a volume difference when I change from the General program to the Comfort program and the Speech in Noise program while streaming on my iPhone and selecting different programs on the iPhone. That is because the Comfort program has markedly lower volume compared to General or Speech in Noise or Music.

What I’m saying is that it looks like the amplification/compression in the Fine Tuning section for each of the programs has an effect on the streamed audio. But it doesn’t look like any other specific processing has an effect on the streamed audio from what I can tell.


#22

Thank you everyone for these well considered comments. They are extremely helpful in orientating me on the power of the aids. Also essential for my next visit from the audiologist. With these insights I can have an informed conversation and an opportunity to gain the very best from the technology. As a scientist, I become frustrated if I do not understand the technology. I am fortunate to have an audiologist who is utterly focused on tuning to meet my needs. This was why I went for home visits and not to a shop. The chap came round to my home, tested me with both sound and bone conduction, programmed the aids, asked me to put on my surround sound hifi system to try to create a noisy environment. He has responded to my emails and I have been keeping a log on my experiences on each program in differing environments. On Monday, I will be in my most testing of environments a long room with 40 students on different tables, talking to themselves and me. I shall try all the settings and log the results. I am so grateful of your support on this forum and will report back on progress, kind regards Jonathan


#23

Whatever name you want to give it, it changes the character of the music. The key to music is not audibility but faithful reproduction. When making sure that speech can be understood it is not so important if there is a change in tenor and key but that isn’t so in music. And the more complex the music the more disastrous those changes might be. In an extreme example you might get a clarinet playing in A major sounding like a bassoon in B flat minor. You might get a whole group of upper register instruments not only sounding lower but off key as well. Simply moving notes down into an audible area won’t work, pitch must be preserved as well. You can’t just move the sound down in frequency, but must move it by octave. A b flat must still be a b flat. Maybe that is what’s done (looking at the graph doesn’t tell me) and if so at least the reproduction will be in tune so to speak. That might be acceptable for small groups with limited instruments like rock bands or small jazz ensembles. But whole orchestras with entire upper register groupings lowered? Perish the thought.


#24

You can call it whatever you want in theory, but unless you actually have heard and experienced it in practice, I would hold the thought and not make big statement with words like “disastrous”.

I consider myself music literate (I sing and was in a band for years back in the high school and college days, can tell when things sound out of tune), and I was totally surprised when I didn’t find the Speech Rescue feature interfering with my music enjoyment. But everyone is different and you may not find the result acceptable for you while I do.

I only talked about Speech Rescue here because you asked me specifically, so I really have no reason or skin in the game in terms of trying to promote it for music listening. There’s no reason why anyone has to be stuck listening to music with Speech Rescue on when there’s an option to turn it off and when built in Music program doesn’t have it enabled in the first place. But I thought it to be peculiar that I don’t notice it to be “disastrous” like you tend to think it should be, so I thought I’d mention it, that’s all. Whether anyone believe it or not is up to them. I’m just relaying my personal opinion on it.

But I think if I’m watching a movie and I want to have Speech Rescue on so I can understand the dialog, I don’t really worry too much about Speech Rescue ruining my experience with the music in that movie at all. Not once had I ever thought that something was very off with the music in any movies I’ve watched so far while Speech Rescue was enabled for me.

In the Speech Rescue white paper that I read (I know, I know, many folks on this forum seem to strongly dislike white papers, I don’t know why, maybe because they don’t understand them so they distrust them?), it says that "Speech Rescue utilizes principles of auditory processing (cochlear filtering) so that frequency lowered sound is minimally compressed on a psychological (critical band) scale. Maybe this has something to do with helping making it not sound “disastrous” to me. They go into details about this cochlear filtering in the white paper if you’re curious enough to want to read up on it.


#25

Because they are heavily biased and serve marketting purposes. But they are fine for looking at how things work. Any hint of “our brand works better than brands Y and Z” should be taken with a truckload of salt.

To add to what you have said, any faithful reproduction of music is going to be limited by the distortion created by the damaged cochlea. At the end of the day I agree with you that whatever sounds good to you IS good. Also, for people worried that their hearing loss is interfering with some sort of perfect vision that the original artist had–likelihood is high than any adult musician has some level of hearing loss, and composed the piece through the filter of their own damaged cochlea.


#26

I find the word an appropriate expression of what I think, especially given that it is modified by the word ‘might’. But if it makes you feel better I’ll stick with deleterious. Frequency lowering changes the character of the music and the difference can be heard when doing side by side comparisons between a universal program using frequency mods and a music program. You might think it irrelevant, I don’t. That you find it acceptable is fine but not really the point. It is changed. And a brief search of the topic around the forum shows that many are disturbed by the way music sounds with aids. I was. I came very close to turning in a set of Oticon Alta2 Pros three years ago over their poor performance with music and that was with the music program. The charts you included haven’t changed since the Alta2 and don’t contribute anything to this particular issue.

Look you’re the biggest OPN1 fan boy on this forum and that’s fine because they do what you need them to do and you’re happy with them. But you’re also looked on by many as the OPN1 guru. I’ve tagged you in a number of posts by people looking for info on them. And when someone asks what programs they need to add you tell them you don’t use anything but the default with perhaps an occasional use of speech in noise they read that as they don’t need anything else (if you don’t need it they must not need it) and may be missing out on something that could improve their experience.


#27

No. One’s “perception” of any faithful reproduction is limited by the extent of their disability and that is a very important distinction. Musicians and serious audiophiles need to know that the lousy sound they hear is the product of their damaged hearing and not the fault of the instrument. That what they have is as good as it gets. Knowing that, and as distasteful or depressing as it may be, one can come to grips with it and accept what can’t be helped. But if it’s the instrument one is driven to a quest for the holy grail. Been there, done that.


#28

Looks like someone is starting to choose to resort to deleterious name calling on this forum by choosing choice words like fan boy.

I’m simply a user of the OPN sharing my own experience and knowledge of the OPN. It’s nothing new about such things on forums. People go on forums looking for info and they do so fully aware that it’s really up to them to filter the information and decide what to use and what not to use. People are all adults here capable of making their own decisions on what they read so you don’t need to worry about who has influence over whom.

As for my advocating the use of the music program or not, while I have indeed said that the music sounds just fine for me in the default program based on my personal experience, I’ve also consistently said that built in Music does open things up a bit more than it already is for the OPN and if you had actually followed what I said closely, you would have found that it is my personal opinion that the built in Music program is the only other program I found worth having for myself beside the default program.


#29

Fan boy was uncalled for you’re right. But the rest stands. You don’t have to read too long to see that not everyone is capable of sorting through things. Some are looking to be told what do and are too quick to take the word of an articulate experienced user as Gospel, especially when they come across as authoritative. Not everyone reads all the conversations here and some don’t even read a whole thread.


#30

Update one month of using the aids. Met with my audiologist yesterday and he changed the domes for open type, this has completely removed the feeling of occlusion I had. Also he tweaked the gain and removed the music program and replaced it with speech in noise. I have yet to try this one out. The lecture program is fantastic and allows me to lead a workshop with considerably less fatigue. Streaming iPhone calls is superb, however I do have to hold the iPhone to talk as it uses the iPhone’s mic. Looked into trying to use the aid’s mics but that is not possible. To do this would require the opticon connect device, which is cumbersome and expensive (might as well just hold the phone!).

I have now accommodated to the aids and I have to say, the clarity in my hearing is pretty overwhelming. I remember getting quite emotional when he programmed them in my ears and switched them on. The only minus is that the streaming of music is very tinny due to the size of the receivers but I am aware that I am not going to replicate the gorgeous sounds of my Bose over the ear headphones, which by the way, work marvelously on top of the aids. Altogether I am absolutely delighted with the hearing I have now. Thanks to everyone for all they advice, best regards, Jonathan


#31

The streaming is more tinny than before because you switched to open domes. But yes, the receivers being tiny can never match your Bose headphones in terms of quality. No other hearing aids can match the Bose headphones anyway. It’s not specific to the OPN.

The open domes will also reduce the effectiveness of the noise reduction, but since your hearing loss is very mild, that may not be such a big issue anyway.

There are 3 extra programs for use beside the default program and you’ve used one for Lecture already. If another one is the Music program, then there should be one more program to assign the Speech in Noise to. I wonder why the Music program needed to be removed? Do you have yet another program not mentioned?


#32

Not sure why you believe the connect clip is cumbersome it is very small and works great. I use it if I am making are taking a call from my Apple Watch or if I am doing IP calls from my MacBook. As for as using the iPhone mic that is not an issue either I just have my iPhone in my shirt pocket upside down so the mic is up and the call goes great


#33

Hi cvkemp, thanks for the response, I use the iPhone in exactly the same way! I am tempted with the connect clip because I want to use it for skype calls on my computer. Thought it was bigger. Will look into the cost.


#34

Volusiano, thanks for replying. I have one program called general, comfort, lecture and speech in noise. Not sure what other programs are available, please could you let me know


#35

Ah, OK. I didn’t realize that you also have the Comfort program.

I think those are pretty much all the built-in programs the OPN has, not counting the phone-specific programs.


#36

Connect clip is really small compared to the streamer


#37

I have purchased the connect clip and it is coming tomorrow, will update you on results. I am particularly interested in accessing audio from my pc. Things like Skype calls as I am always having to put on a headset. For my work I am on Skype a lot.


#38

As long as your PC has Bluetooth support, it should work fine. Even if you don’t have Bluetooth support, a third party Bluetooth dongle for your PC will probably be fine as long as it has minimum latency. Latency is usually not a big issue on phone calls like it is with video.