Firmware bugs in resound Omnia

[ssa]

i’m only talking about the resound 3d app… The audiologist said it a suspected firmware bug i’m not a self fitter and i’ll never be one because I have a very unique config, Nucleus 7 and Omnia 7 UP. If i fuck up the perfect fitting parameter. it throws off my hearing bimodally reducing performance rather than helping performance…

I have a Android device

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

Perhaps the forum’s Oticon-oriented thread on issues with iOS 16 (and/or iOS 15) is an indicator that even Oticon and Apple are not entirely on the same page as well when it comes to connectivity and MFi firmware, etc.

That what happen when you don’t standardize the bluetooth protocol… you become slave to company lone support on protocol… you are watching the downfall of company support on a non standard bluetooth protocol when they put engineering resources into making sure that LEA/:LC3 codec is made perfect … i’'m telling you that MFI protocol is deprecated already when they launched the iphone 14 because they are supporting LEA /LC3 codec according to bluetooth sig certification …

[jim_lewis]

@ssa

i’'m telling you that MFI protocol is deprecated already

Made for iPhone is just a branding term. It doesn’t imply specific technology other than being something “special” that you get when you use MFi hearing aids. Apple is still into using that term. Here’s a link to an Apple support page updated as of 9/15/22 on which Apple is still throwing the MFi hearing aid moniker around. Even if the underlying basis were to become the BT LEA/LC3 codec, I’d bet that Apple will try to find something in connectivity that you can only get using MFi HA’s with an iPhone - it’s their basic walled garden approach.

About Hearing Aid Compatibility (HAC) requirements for iPhone - Apple Support

While looking for the most recent Apple page touting MFi, I found the following discussion of an Apple patent application that seems to be adding environmental program switching into the basic MFi connectivity features. I wonder how Apple being in charge of what program, directionality, noise features, etc., are activated will go over with ReSound, Oticon, Starkey, etc., ??? Perhaps if they ever implement that sort of feature for MFi HA’s, the HA OEM will have an option to override the basic Hearing Devices settings?

Apple Developing Advanced Features for MFi Hearing Aids - The Mac Observer

@ssa

when they launched the iphone 14 because they are supporting LEA /LC3 codec according to bluetooth sig certification

BTW, if you can find anywhere on Bluetooth.com that the iPhone 14 is BT LE Audio certified, folks in the BT LE Audio and The Future of Hearing thread on this forum would probably love you posting a link to such a certification/announcement as one of the conundrums is why Apple hasn’t publicly trumpeted anything about BT LE Audio and the iPhone 14. Folks like me who bought an iPhone 14 with that expectation would love to see something definite on that score.

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

BTW, if you can find anywhere on Bluetooth.com that the iPhone 14 is BT LE Audio certified, folks in the BT LE Audio and The Future of Hearing thread on this forum would probably love you posting a link to such a certification/announcement as one of the conundrums is why Apple hasn’t publicly trumpeted anything about BT LE Audio and the iPhone 14. Folks like me who bought an iPhone 14 with that expectation would love to see something definite on that score.

See supported layer, you will see LC3 codec in the cert
https://launchstudio.bluetooth.com/ListingDetails/157691

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

Made for iPhone is just a branding term. It doesn’t imply specific technology other than being something “special” that you get when you use MFi hearing aids. Apple is still into using that term. Here’s a link to an Apple support page updated as of 9/15/22 on which Apple is still throwing the MFi hearing aid moniker around. Even if the underlying basis were to become the BT LEA/LC3 codec, I’d bet that Apple will try to find something in connectivity that you can only get using MFi HA’s with an iPhone - it’s their basic walled garden approach.

what is your point there? I’m well aware of this.

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

While looking for the most recent Apple page touting MFi, I found the following discussion of an Apple patent application that seems to be adding environmental program switching into the basic MFi connectivity features. I wonder how Apple being in charge of what program, directionality, noise features, etc., are activated will go over with ReSound, Oticon, Starkey, etc., ??? Perhaps if they ever implement that sort of feature for MFi HA’s, the HA OEM will have an option to override the basic Hearing Devices settings?

they can patent whatever they want so they can license the idea to hearing aid manufacture… it is common n in industry to patent whatever they think is a good idea.

[jim_lewis]

That’s interesting as if you search from the main search page on “Apple,” Launch Studio - Listing Search, the latest iPhone 14s come up but they’re listed as having only BT 5.2 (which is BLEA compatible, too, IIRC). Whereas on the page you point out for the host subsystem 192218 (which is used in the iPhone 14), the core specification is listed as 5.3, I’m assuming that’s referring to BT 5.3 - and that’s an earlier posting as of 8/1/22 whereas the Apple search results were posted 9/19/22).

Is the reference to LC3 the line under Supported Layers that say “Low Complexity Communication Codec” is supported? Pardon my ignorance!

[jim_lewis]

@ssa

what is your point there?

The point is the “MFi” is a branding term and just refers to connectivity restricted to iPhones and devices that buy into Apple’s protocol(s). But we have no idea exactly what those protocols are. And there is no reason to suppose they are going away anytime soon. I predict that Apple will offer BT LE Audio (BLEA) connectivity but it will continue to offer MFI connectivity. It could offer a version of BLEA that works best with MFi devices but still works with other BLEA devices. And Apple has to keep offering backward compatibility with the previous MFi protocols to avoid pulling the rug out from under hearing aid users hanging on to their older devices. I met an elderly woman at a neighborhood party the other day who was quite happy with her 2014 battery-powered HA’s, which she said were working great, and saw no reason to upgrade.

So just because BLEA is coming along doesn’t mean Apple can’t offer a special version of that and brand it as MFi connectivity. And the old MFi is not going away anytime soon. iPhones can have both BLEA and MFi.

ReSound Ones do the old MFi; they’re also claimed by ReSound to be BLEA-compatible (at least in 2021). My iPhone 14 can do MFi with my Quattros but you infer from the search page you referenced that the iPhone 14 is already BLEA-ready, basically.

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

That’s interesting as if you search from the main search page on “Apple,” Launch Studio - Listing Search, the latest iPhone 14s come up but they’re listed as having only BT 5.2 (which is BLEA compatible, too, IIRC). Whereas on the page you point out for the host subsystem 192218 (which is used in the iPhone 14), the core specification is listed as 5.3, I’m assuming that’s referring to BT 5.3 - and that’s an earlier posting as of 8/1/22 whereas the Apple search results were posted 9/19/22).

i’m really confused here. what is your point here? iPhone 14 and Airpod pro uses LC3 / LE audio…

@jim_lewis

The point is the “MFi” is a branding term and just refers to connectivity restricted to iPhones and devices that buy into Apple’s protocol(s).

Nothing new, Apple is being Apple.

@jim_lewis

But we have no idea exactly what those protocols are.

We actually know, just ask the hearing device via bluetooth advertising protocol, it will give you a list of supported services… you can actually see in an btle sniffer app…

[jim_lewis]

Hi, @ssa

Instead of just tossing out remarks, perhaps you should illustrate your statements in sufficient detail to demonstrate what you claim. The page you cited for the iPhone 14 supporting BT LE Audio doesn’t say anything clearly that you have pointed out specifically in text as having BT LE Audio already implemented. “low complexity codec” to me is not necessarily LC3. BT 5.3 doesn’t mean LC3 is actually up and running on a device. And as a Mac Rumors article pointed out, the status of BT LE Audio for the AirPods Pro 2.0 is a mystery: LE Audio and the Future of Hearing - #488 by jim_lewis.

I have used nRF Connect to look at protocols previously. For proprietary protocols, there is usually only a line describing an available service as such with something like “no further description available.” So, perhaps you could provide a more detailed example from your favorite BT scanner of how it divulges the inner workings of proprietary protocols to you. I could learn something useful from that.

Not to get into a flame war here, but it seems that you make assertions but don’t back them up with detailed illustrations that others can agree, Yep, that’s what it says. Others do not seem to be reaching the same conclusions as you are that BT LE Audio is up and running on the iPhone 14 or AirPods Pro 2.

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

Instead of just tossing out remarks, perhaps you should illustrate your statements in sufficient detail to demonstrate what you claim

Well I don’t work for Apple first of all and Apple employee are under NDA. Apple said it support the latest BT 5.3 and the evidence in certifcation back it up …

@jim_lewis

I have used nRF Connect to look at protocols previously. For proprietary protocols, there is usually only a line describing an available service as such with something like “no further description available.” So, perhaps you could provide a more detailed example from your favorite BT scanner of how it divulges the inner workings of proprietary protocols to you. I could learn something useful from that.

Huh? All i said you can get the different advertising services ID like MFI, ASHA, and other resound services

@jim_lewis

Not to get into a flame war here, but it seems that you make assertions but don’t back them up with detailed illustrations that others can agree, Yep, that’s what it says. Others do not seem to be reaching the same conclusions as you are that BT LE Audio is up and running on the iPhone 14 or AirPods Pro 2.

i’m not trying to start a flamewar, please stop jumping into conclusion? I stand by my assessment. take it or leave it,

Let me ask you this, do you have any evidence of LE audio is not enabled on iphone 14 or airpod pro 2nd gen ? you should be able to see the BTLEA protocol services if the 2nd airpod pro has it enabled…

[Zebras]

@ssa

Let me ask you this, do you have any evidence of LE audio is not enabled on iphone 14 or airpod pro 2nd gen ?

Do you have links to that they are?

[jim_lewis]

A post with a link to the contrary about how why Apple is mum on BT LE Audio implementation for now.

LE Audio and the Future of Hearing

Another opinion that BT 5.3 and the new audio in the iPhones and AirPod Pro 2s brings improved listening but no BT LE Audio for now as it’s not as good as Apple’s AAC codec and would only enhance use of the AirPod Pros with non-Apple devices - not a desirable outcome for Apple, for now. iPhone 14 and AirPods Pro 2 support Bluetooth 5.3, but LE Audio support not confirmed (ithinkdiff.com)

[ssa]

@jim_lewis

A post with a link to the contrary about how why Apple is mum on BT LE Audio implementation for now.

There is a bit of negotiation between airpod and iPhone

to name a few codec AAC, Apt X and LC3, the devices determine the link.

The transport medium is the new LE audio link by bluetooth sig authors (LE Isochronous Channels)

They can use any codec on the airpod pro but the base negotiated link must have LC3 for compatibility.

Background: i have experience working on creating protocol level specification

[ssa]

@Zebras

Do you have links to that they are?

I gave you evidence they are using LE audio,via bluetootth sig certification. take it or leave it… I stand by my assessment.

What more evidence do you need? I don’t own an airpod or an iphone…

Certification requires a lot of testing with a certification test box/suite…

[JordanK]

You two need to chill a bit.

Jordan

[ssa]

Can confirm that LE audio is not enabled in current omnia firmware release but it has a few GATT services for bluetooth 5.2 but it is incomplete

16-bit%20UUID%20Numbers%20Document.pdf

[MDB]

and yet Omnia are BT 5.3 certified according to Bluetooth.com.

[ssa]

That just mean bluetooth core specification is compliance without any audio services / profiles. They are doing the bare minimum to get it passed and get the hardware ready for a post bluetooth LE audio future… (firmware update is required )

[jim_lewis]

Thanks! That’s the sort of help that I need to make sense of what one can read with a BT scanner. My ignorance level has been reduced a bit (but it’s still somewhere in the stratosphere).