Does Hearing-Aid Industry still exist?

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#34

The only short term glitch I see is the current shortage of simple inexpensive semiconductor chips in the market. Everything from cars (with Ford and GM forced to dial back assembly lines due to the inability to install the electronics cars rely on today) to TVs, anything with a screen, and even HAs are in such short supply prices have, in some cases, jumped 1,000% in price. Chips that sold for $0.50 are now selling for $30. A cheap mosfet switch the design of which hasn’t changed much in years, is suddenly a precious product as without it you can’t complete the build a high, or low end, electronic devices and and controls.

This is bound to impact HA makers who will have to decide if and how they can handle the increase in cost. Where it really may hit home is for anyone like Bose to introduce things like OTC aids may have to rethink their introduction timetables. We may well end up with a shortage of devices over the next year with HAs. Even Sony’s PS5, which is selling like crazy, just put out a warning that unit production may well not catch up to demand for the next year. If OTC aids are stuck in the same loop, we may be speculating about their introduction for many months before we see them.

It’s just another twist in the pathways electronic devices can be designed and marketed. The funny part is all the complex chips like all the CPUs can be made in sophisticated chip plants, while it’s the little simple cheap stuff halts production across industries.

#35

The IC market will come back, not sure when, I am sure that they will make a lot of money off of this demand. Sonova is seeing the writing on the wall and will move into the retail space. It is a win for them as they get a distribution chain and probably some technology. I for one, have been waiting for Bose for some time.

The tech that will be essential will be ASICs, not certain what the level of discrete components in the current HA is.

Ray

#36

There was a move to open platform chips in the late 1990s by Phillips, but it didn’t get anywhere really.

The fab runs are/were pretty discrete and are funded by the high end models which means the tail of the run is pretty much for free. It’s not like normal fabbing which has huge cost pressures.
Completely different set of rules driving the supply than being suggested above.

#37

I guess I don’t understand what you mean. My comment is that these devices are all ASIC based, and the economics of ASICs are consistent. The hardware cost is all up front and it is a NRE, the SW is an ongoing expense.

I am not describing an open platform, actually just the opposite.

What am I missing or not understanding here?

#38

I disagree. Phone technology has not fundamentally changed in the last 10 years, and the tech incorporated into phones over the past 15 years has been borrowed from other industries, photo, computer, audio. Most changes in phones have been in the form of appropriation and iteration.

Jim

#39

Hi Jim,

For the record, I did not use the term ‘fundamentally’, and I agree that this has been an iterative process

My background is in engineering. That is 45 years of embedded processing with a specific focus processing technologies including SoC design and use. This is going back 45+ years.

Major improvements that phone technology has brought by technology include:

Chemistry: Battery tech
Software: Signal processing, Power managememnt
Hardware: SoC design, low power design
Mechanical: Optics, Packaging

In all of these areas the Cell phone has absolutely driven the technology edge. I would agree that this has been iterative, but the sharing of this tech is in exactly the other direction that you suggest. The above mentioned improvements have found their way into other commercial arenas.

The standard home computer has been slow to accept SoC technology, the exception here is the spate of products such as the Raspberry Pi, etc.

I am happy to carry this conversation on, but it should probably be off line as I don’[t want annoy / bore others.

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#40

In general, I found this entry a very useful summary of the changes going on today in the hearing devices industry. I am currently a devotee of Bose Hearphones, and I love the fact that they don’t hide behind my ear. I would welcome questions and comments from those I encounter but I never get any, except “What are you listening to?” Doctors I’ve met since I started wearing them (with the pandemic) have been fascinated and wanted to know all about them.

#41

I don’t think R&D explains the cost of HAs at all.

The Hearing-Aid industry is still very much a protected market, where there is limited entry by vendors (audiologists) who collude with manufacturers to keep prices high.

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#42

In any High tech or medical industry the cost of research is most of the cost of the product, be it a drug, hearing aid, the doctors education. Also the cost of labor, and parts are for higher than the finish product. And I understand that most people have no understanding of that fact. Let’s take a automobile the cost for parts that go into an automobile for out weighs the cost you pay for a new car. The same would be true for a motorcycle, a cellphone, a washing machine etc. everyone has to make a living, part of that living s a home, office cost, utilities, education so on and so. And as consumers we either forget that our we don’t want to except that fact of life.

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#43

For me…. @cvkemp, There is a fundamental flaw in that argument Chuck…. These excessive profits are made from peoples disabilities, I can decline to buy a car, and walk or get public transport, I can not bother with a washing machine, and hand wash my clothes, but I cannot function without my aids… The KS 10’s are to all intensive purposes, the Phonak Paradise 90’s, Costco sells for around 1400 dollars, a private AuD will sell for around 6000 dollars for essentially the same aids, same R & D, but massive difference in price…. Cheers Kev :wink:

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#44

You can also decline to buy hearing aids like so many do, or you can choice to buy over the counter or used like some of my friends do. And yes if you feel comfortable with using Costco they do great for some. But it still doesn’t change the fact that I KNOW what I am talking about, I was in the High tech industry for about 40 years doing everything from, the dirty assemble work to the research to the repair and troubleshooting. Research does a lot of work, and most of the times their jobs are made worse by marketing making claims that is unrealistic then expecting research and designer to make to make it happen. The Costco versions are stripped down in some ways and Costco most times sales their services at a loss or near loss to get you in their stores to fill your basket with everything else they sale. I am not say Costco aids are not worth it, I am trying to be honest.
If you go deep in to most tech companies profits not the big ones you will find that what they make off the devices go back in to salaries, for research, development, and
and manufacturing, I will admit that the CEOs make way too much money for what they really do, unless they truly are the brains behind the products and development.

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#45

I totally agree. This thread is really interesting. I’m feeling very confident that we are witnessing big change. I’m 17 days wearing Bose Sound Control HA and they are working extraordinarily well for me. My hearing loss is in the middle between moderate and severe. I don’t see how this doesn’t blow up the current business model in the industry and drive innovation up and prices down. I don’t know if it’s my imagination, but there seems to be a lot of people that are very resistant to the idea that non traditional companies can get into this industry and be good at it. Kodak was huge and is barely an also ran in photography. I can’t work without HA and I’m fortunate that at the high end, I could afford HA. The fact that people can’t hear because they can’t afford HA is travesty. I’m optimistic that that’s going to change for maybe everyone.

#47

If I had your hearing loss I might try those too. But for my needs they are less than useless

#48

I’m curious who is making the excessive profits? I don’t think hearing aid companies have any greater return on capital than other industries (although it’s merely an impression; I haven’t researched. Private audiologists certainly charge higher prices, but I think they’re largely a disappearing business model, although it will take awhile.

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#49

For my sins @MDB I am a dyed in the wool socialist, As such, I do not believe the hearing industry should be making excessive profits from anyone’s disability, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I am not against profit, I am against exploiting a need that hearing impaired cannot avoid…… Many Years ago, through a bit of skullduggery, I gained access to the NHS Phonak website, I wanted to know how much NHS was paying for their Phonak aids, in comparison to the high street AuDs selling price, believe me when I say it was a revelation, and then some! The price was approximately 10 x times cheaper with what they paid, in comparison to what high street AuD’s were charging, to me a 1000% mark up is excessive…. I am acutely aware, at that particular time, NHS Audiology was the largest dispensary of hearing aids in the world, and their buying power would have reflected what they actually paid, for instance £200 NHS paid for a single top of the range Naida, around £2000 high street, approximately $300 NHS and $3000 stateside. Somebody was making an excessive profit? Cheers Kev :wink:

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#50

So you don’t believe that a person has the right to make a living for themselves and their families. You don’t understand the cost of a business location and utility cost. I am sorry but I believe in my freedom and my right to work, and also that my creativity is also worth something. I also, don’t believe that I should have to work while others draw a check for setting on their butts, and have to pay taxes so they can get a free ride.

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#51

I accept your facts, but not the logic. I think it’s pretty common to provide much cheaper prices to customers that buy in volume. I think one needs to look at the entire business operation to look at profit, not just product markup. For selling in volume, one is largely looking at incremental costs to determine what price one needs to make a profit. To make a profit as a business (and stay in business) one needs to figure out how to cover all of ones’s costs and make a profit.

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#52

I saw the NHS database for NHS aids back in 2008 and they were paying £140 per top of the range aids (each). I was truly shocked!

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#53

Hi Chuck @cvkemp and @MDB, I believe the measure of any society is how it cares for those who cannot care for themselves, some disabled folks can be virtually unemployable, and some are disabled because of poor work practices, so do we just throw them on the scrap heap. When I was younger my philosophy was, work extremely hard, and play even harder, unfortunately those playing days are virtually gone :rofl: Over the years it became increasingly important for me to work for ethical employers, eventually leading me to care work, and social work, where I am at present, I could have earned more elsewhere, but earning money or lots of money has never been a priority for me, as long as I have enough to get bye. I have worked in many industries, I have run a construction company, we had approximately 50 men, mostly carpenters, plumbers, and electricians, we also had all the local councils maintenance contracts, along with a bout £3 million new build housing on the books, including all the local council maintenance contacts, it’s fair to say I know how commerce works, I am aware about pricing and costing…… Now we are all never going to agree, my beliefs will be different from yours, I believe all medical care should be funded through taxes, and free to all at point of service, I believe medical care is a basic human right, I would gladly pay double my taxes for that basic right, but your views may be different, and I have no problem with conflicting opinions…. I suppose I am just heavily biased towards the HOH of this world, and those less fortunate than myself…… Take care, cheers Kev :wink:

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#55

I think that this is a very good point that too many people seem to have forgotten. Sometimes it almost seems like there are people that believe that by other people doing worse than them, their position in life will be better. I’ll never be wealthy but I’m doing ok and have most of the things I need and some of the luxuries that I want. I wish everyone could say the same. Being able to afford HA should not be regarded as a luxury. Thanks for a great post.

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