Do I need hearing aids? (I'm a piano player)

Hearing Aids
#51

I also play the piano. And with that I guess you like listening to your stereo too. Your story is like mine, and most others. Passing 55 your hearing starts detoriating, especially the high notes. In the beginning you dont notice, but at a point I realized my expensive HiFi didnt give me the pleasure of perfect sound anymore. Clear treble has always been essential with Hifi. The result was I lost some interest.

Too many years passed until I finally got me a pair Signia Silks which hides in the ears without any molding or anything. Piano and HiFi thru speakers or headphones now sounds great again. And my wife is less irritated because she dosen’t have to repeat everything…almost.

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#52

Audiology Online provides continuing professional education for hearing care providers (CEU’s required to maintain certification, information to understand new models of HA’s and their fitting, etc. If you search their offerings on “music” (without the quotes), there are quite a few hits. The one that seemed most relevant to the discussion in this thread is the following:

Comparison of Music Sound Quality Between Hearing Aids and Music Programs | 29850 | Hearing Aids - Adults (audiologyonline.com)

The course description reads in part:

This study describes music sound quality ratings between the universal and music programs of five premier market hearing aids, and which hearing aid achieves the best overall sound quality ratings.

I don’t know that there are any restrictions on someone associated with an OEM touting the usual “whitepaper” assertions without peer-reviewed and accepted evidence, so I would take claims in any course with a grain of salt (or two). But Audiology Online might be a good place to go to get more professional knowledge (and opinions) on hearing aids and how they deal with different sounds, music vs. speech, etc. You can sign up for a free account and audit courses for free. You only pay for a course if you want to claim CEU credit.

There are also Audiology Online courses on how to protect the hearing of musicians (and music listeners) while still allowing music appreciation. And one course that I saw on “Why We Like Our Music Loud!”

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Hearing aids for music listening
#53

I’m guessing you are missing out on many of the harmonics of a lot of the keyboard well below the top 4 or 5 keys. You sound like you are merely referring to the fundamentals around the 1,000 to 2,000 Hz range that seem to be acceptable. Harmonics that we should be hearing extend well beyond 6K to 8K Hz range.

#54

Thanks for that -

I agree completely, as I said:

Realistically, with the extent of my high frequency loss I doubt that I can get anything near a ‘normal’ appreciation of those frequencies - whether direct or the secondary (etc) harmonics - for music appreciation without blowing out my hair cells. For speech of course, there is frequency lowering/compression but for music - that way madness lies. At this stage (unassisted) I have adapted and music sound ‘normal’ to me without those harmonics. There is some work on frequency lowering of high frequency musical sounds by a musical third or sixth (or multiples thereof) so the new sounds are not discordant, but while that avoids a musically unpleasant sound, it does not make it any more accurate than the unassisted sound.

I’ll report back as I get adapted (or otherwise!) to my HAs.

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#55

So … dunno if I should start a new topic but figured I’d update here…

Got fitted for my KS10 s at a Costco today. Extremely thorough - initially tried 2 fully open domes - the whole feedback then rem testing. My right ear not really suitable (tried allowing extra gain on the feedback testing but…) so changed that to a vented closed dome in the right and full open in the left . Both with M receivers. Then redid the feedback and rem testing again. For the record - no earlocks etc and no significant movement or displacement with eating yawning etc… to be honest I can’t really feel them in place. if I wiggle my ears I can hear them a bit though :slight_smile:

The audiologist couldn’t have been more helpful and enthusiastic! Very thorough explanation of everything including care and feeding of the aids :slight_smile: She was was quite happy to work on my requirements for the music program (particularly in minimising compression) and also set up a couple of custom Tcoil options I thought I may need. We started at 100% as she figures I would adapt quickly.

WOW - what a difference these HAs make! It appears I have been listening to people through a thick woollen blanket for the last few years :smiley:
Of course I have noted that there is a crisp/sharp brightness to a lot of sounds which I expect to habituate to - thanks In Part to the good folks here who have been a wealth of knowledge.

As soon as I got home I started on the piano. Firstly, the top notes now actually exist ! I am also getting what I think are the harmonics of the lower notes as well. To me the sound seems quite natural so I am happy so far. Time will tell.

I had asked for a tcoil program so I could use headphones with my digital practice piano - that turned out to be unnecessary! My current over ear phones work just fine with the custom music programme with no feedback despite the fact feedback control is completely off! Maybe I’m just lucky but not looking a gift :horse: horse in the mouth.

I’ve had no issue with the app - I have only linked the HAs with the app - not for streaming with the phone as I am ok using the phone normally. I have streamed with my iPad which is a breeze and better sound than I expected. I was concerned that given the different domes I might have a distorted stereo image but is seems fine and well balanced.

Lastly - on an afternoon walk on a cold and very windy day with my bride I did not encounter any significant wind noise at all so am very happy about that.

Keep in mind these are my first HAs so I can’t compare them to others but so far I am quite content. Testing them on the TV (direct - no streamer) tonight.

Fingers crossed. Making a list of any concerns and returning for follow up in a couple of weeks…

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#56

What a great discussion. Almost all of us have had similar experiences in dealing with our hearing loss. I have bought hearing aids at Costco in the past, and they are fine. One problem with Costco is they generally sell the last year’s model.

If you can afford it, there are some great private practitioners out there. After trying a number of people, I have an audiologist/hearing aid dispenser who is endlessly patient with me and very talented at tweaking my aids to get the best possible sound. Whenever I get too enthusiastic about a manufacturer offering an instrument and a revolutionary breakthrough, she calms me down. She also dispenses a lot of HAs and tells me the experiences (anonymous of course) of her other clients.

There is little question that HAs are basically designed to understand speech. I tried a few music programs, but I haven’t yet found a satisfactory one.

I never could get used to domes. My audiologist has designed wide open silicone molds that are comfortable, preserve and base and are non-occlusive.

–Steve

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#57

Not sure where you got this information but it’s just not true.
Please do a little research before saying things like this.
Thanks

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#58

Even if it was true the Costco aids are last years models, it wouldn’t matter at all. If last year models worked great, are you implying that a year later they are no good? Manufacturers of products are always tweaking products a tiny bit so they can say what you had last year just won’t cut it today. That’s what drives their profit margin.

My used pair of Phonak V70s are a few generations old now, but they are working as well today as when they were the latest must have current models.

The OP got lucky, not because he purchased the latest wiz-bang aids, but because whoever programed his aids knew what they were doing, and took the time to get it right. He should keep that person’s name on file, and insist she is the one to help him the next time he visits Costco.

I would also add that if you have a combination that works for you, stick with it as long as you can, and try not to reach out for the next shiny object.

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#59

I’ve played clarinet, and when I went to see a “pro” to have my clarinet adjusted, I wondered why he could hear nuances that I could not, and my hearing is down only 60db where yours is down 90. So yes, absolutely your sense of the sounds from your piano should be a lot keener with a well adjusted HA.

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#60

Thanks for all your comments

I understand what you say @StevenS but not why :smiley:

As @Raudrive said - they have the current and latest now-a-days. I did try to investigate the mythology surrounding Costco HAs in another thread but it kinda petered out. Seems there is a cultural bias against Costco for some reason I certainly can’t fathom.

Actually it wasn’t all luck :smiley: It was in large part to self education thanks to the good folks on this site in particular. I went in with at least basic knowledge and some enthusiasm which was matched by the great enthusiasm and ability of the Audi as well! We seemed to really hit it off and I wonder if it is an unusual experience for her to have a client who has some idea of the technical issues involved and who knows what they (realistically) might expect from the start? Either way, under the current model at my local Costco I will be seeing her for all my visits as a matter of consistency.

Lastly - and by no means least - I listened to a very good recording of Vivaldi’s 4 seasons today - for the first time in years it brought tears to my eyes :cry: - So much richness of sound that I hadn’t realised I had been missing. :grinning:

Along with playing my pianos, I have another 500 recordings to listen to now :smiley: .

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#61

now you are way overstating the value of hearing aids.

for listening to recorded music a decent sound system with equalization and good headphones is still far superior to any hearing aid.

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#62

This statement may be true for you but not everyone. We all have different hearing losses.

Your relatively flat hearing loss is an example of how good headphones would really sound great. For others that don’t have the flat hearing loss this is not true.

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#63

“With equallization”

If you really care about accuracy in music, hearing aids are still not there. when they are I will be first on line to get them.

#64

This is my point about relativity flat hearing losses like yours will enjoy headphones with equalizers. For those with not so flat hearing losses equalizers will not be enough dB in certain frequencies to get the benefit you would for example.

A quick look at equalizers shows they have a maximum of about +/-15 dB control over each frequency band. Most are in the +/-6 dB area that I read about.
Thinking about the limits of the equalizer and looking at people’s audiogram it seems simple to say equalizers would come up short with many people.

If I am way out in left field about this, please correct me.

This is probably why so many of us don’t enjoy music as we did with better hearing.

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#65

some may benefit from a headphone amp also depending on the headphones. I prefer Sennheiser but there are others.

#66

Exactly right. For those who have 60 or 90db hearing loss above 2 or 3k will not benefit much by audio system eq that has a range of +/-10db.

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#67

Well, Value is in the ear of the beholder :wink:
Thanks for the rain - we have had a drought in Australia :smiley: Happily I usually carry an umbrella… :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the raincoat :wink: @Raudrive I agree with what you say 110% .

@Psych1 I think you may be misinterpreting what I am saying - I happily acknowledge that HA do not make my hearing Normal - either for speech or music but - put yourself in my shoes…
Take your equaliser and turn down the higher frequencies above 2000hz as low as they will go - probably -6db - then turn up the lower frequencies as high as they will go - probably +6db . That gives you a difference of 12db. Consider living with that sound for the next 10 years. Then turn it back up… That’s what I am experiencing on steroids! Compared to the lower frequencies, I have a 30db difference at 4000hz and 60db difference at 8000hz. While my correction is probably not “flat” it is significant enough that I can actually hear and appreciate those frequencies. All the secondary harmonics etc that I missed before - it changes the timbre of the sound significantly - especially with strings like violins. This is the richness of which I speak. Admittedly it probably wont make a huge difference to the 10 minute drum solo from Iron Butterfly’s “in-a-gadda-da-vida” but for me it is a SIGNIFICANT change.

NOT one I believe can achieve with:

unless they have comparatively massive equalisation suitable to my hearing loss - and as far as I am aware those are VERY few and far between :wink: .

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#68

I disagree completely. Always hated listening to music though headphones, still do. Heavy equalization may get the music tonally flat and correct for hearing loss, but IMHO it kills the pace and timing of the music. For me a high quality system combined with a good music program on my aids is superior to eq and headphones.

Jim

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#69

Well I think I will add two additional experiences using my hearing aids.

For years I have had pulsating tendonitis, where it sounds like waves breaking on a sea shore. When I started wearing my hearing aids, just inserting the slim tube tips into my ears made the sound almost disappear. This is without even turning on my hearing aids. I think the rubber cones changed the internal pressure in the canal, and reduced the pulse from my heart beat.

About 15 years ago, long before wearing hearing aids, I kept hearing what guitar players would call a “fret buzz” around the E & F on the high E string. I could never get rid of it, and it made everything sound so bad I just quit playing. Last year after a month or two learning to program my Phonak Bolero V70s, and refining the music settings, I pulled out my classical guitar, played it, and of course there was the fret buzz. I switched to my music program, and the buzz was gone. When I was working on the music settings, I just wanted to better listen to music, not even thinking about the guitar problem. I have no idea what’s going on, but I am thrilled with the unexpected results.

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#70

I, too, am a pianist. I went into a long decline with my wife griping about me not hearing her. I finally went to the ENT/Audiologist and they fitted me with aids. It was clear that I could function much better in situations like restaurants and other crowds, but it really didn’t affect my music much (in fact, I found the default settings rather annoying). I did get the ability to tweak my own aids and was able to fix the problems so that I could effectively play with the aids on.

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