Hello, I’ve seen some references on this forum about the Brio 4’s and KS9s from Costco and that both are Roger Direct compatible. However, I can’t find anything about this on the Phonak website nor anything in the Costco literature about these. Does anyone know what the story is here, is the Roger Direct built into either of these, or does the module need to be installed… and if so, does Costco do it or would this need to be a third party Phonak/Roger dealer?
I can’t speak for Costco Canada as my experience is in US. I have been told that KS9 (and presumably Brio 4) are Roger Direct compatible, however Costco will have nothing to do with the devices. Costco recommended going through an audiologist. I have no idea how easy it would be to find one willing to work with you. The other option is to do it yourself. You’d need either a Roger iN device (receiver “licenses” built in) or a regular Roger device, two Roger X receivers (after a certain serial number),and a Roger installer to install the “licenses.” I believe to fully take advantage of setup options would also require having Phonak Target software and a programming device (usually NoahLink Wireless)
If all you need is a microphone for one on one conversations, the PartnerMic is much simpler and much less expensive (and still very good for one one conversations)
Whilst the PartnerMic will definitely help my father in a lot of situations, what we’re really interested in is the Roger Select directional capabilities… he attends a lot of meetings (well, pre-COVID he did!) and also family mealtimes are a real struggle with him, even with only 2 or 3 other people. I have spoken to another friend who has the Roger Select and he said it was life changing… but of course individual results may vary. The one other item I want him to get is the TV Connector… not only will this change his experience, but boy will it change everyone elses around him that will no longer have to put up with the TV volume being set at insane levels for him to hear it!
You don’t include an audiogram, but depending on his audiogram, the Brio4 may be a better match. If so, you might get prices similar to Costco from a local audiologist if you went with a lower level (Naida M 30 or M50) and they could handle all the Roger stuff.
TV connectors are really nice. Most people love them once set up.
We have a member here who has the Roger Installer. He used it to install Roger iN into his KS9 aids with excellent results. I think it’s @WestEndBob.
Thanks all for your input. I’ll communicate this all to my father. As it turns out, due to COVID, there is a 3-4 month waiting list at the nearest Costco to him so he may be forced to go elsewhere anyway.
Thanks for looping me in - and yes I can confirm the KS9 roger direct set up works really well. I did it the ebay way, and over time bought myself two Roger x devices, and a Roger installer - I could then transfer the 2 licences from the Roger X devices to the KS9s, and they have been faultless so far. Ebay has also got me the pen and the remote microphone. I did get to try a Select for a day, and yes it seemed a fantastic device, but it’s hard to find a bargain one on eBay, so I live in hope I can get one someday in the future. The tv device is wonderful - I use it every day for hours on conference calls, then for watching tv in the evening - it’s a life changer for sure. The remote mic is surprisingly useful - my Softly spoken daughter rides a horse sometimes, and when she’s up there I can’t hear a single word she says to me- but if I put the remote mic on her I get every word - even if she is 10m ahead of me on a path. I haven’t used the pen so much, but if life gets back to normal I can imagine it would be useful in the office - though I’d love to have the Select one day…hope this helps, and let me know any questions.
Hi WestEndBob, thanks so much for the information. In fact I want to pick your brain a bit more as it will be me who does the technical side of this. Dad can tear down and rebuild just about any large diesel engine on the planet, but put a tiny computer in front of him and he’s lost So I want to become the technical expert for him for what will hopefully be a good number of years yet. So can I clarify exactly what I would need, assuming he purchases the appropriate KS9 or Brio 4 from Costco:
- Roger X universal receivers x 2 (once configured, these go physically INTO the hearing aids?)
- Roger Installer (Is this a dedicated hardware device just used for configuring the X devices?)
- Whatever Roger devices… Select, Pen, remote mic etc. which I then pair with the X’s?
How does the above fit with the TV Connector, do the X devices connect to the TV Connector?
FInal question… I gather that by using Roger X receivers and installing them myself as above, I am using what is now a bit older technology that Roger Direct is replacing? Is there a significant benefit to not bothering with the above and convincing my Dad to go for something with Roger Direct built in? (He probably won’t want to spend the money, but I can try!)
Oops, I’ve realised that no, these do NOT get installed into the aids themselves… but into an audio streamer or shoe. But It’s not clear to me what these are. Is this something Dad would need to wear or keep in his pocket to act as the intermediary between the whatever Roger device he is using and the hearing aid itself?
Hi again - zebras picture is exactly what I have, and it transfers the licenses from the Roger x (little silver cube) directly into the aid. There is no additional shoe or hardware to add - it’s just the licenses from the 2 Roger X devices. You don’t need the phonak software to do this, only if you then want to adjust the Roger direct program itself. If you buy the SelectIN, this is more expensive as it is the Select, plus 2 licenses (but I don’t know how the licenses get transferred to the aids using a SelectIN). The end result is exactly the same in that you can then use the pen, Select and remote mic directly with the aids without any additional hardware (so, no streamer or shoe is required).
To answer your other questions, yes, you will need the KS9/brio4, plus 2 Roger X devices, plus installer, and then you can use the select, pen or remote mic directly with the aids. If you buy an IN device, you won’t need the Roger x cubes.
The tv connector is far simpler, just plug and play - no additional licenses or software required - it’s very simple to use, and a real bargain.
Oh, and finally, both options, Roger x devices or IN devices are the latest Roger Direct technology. In reality, the tech is already built into the aids, the licenses just activate it.
And this is why I hate phonak’s naming convention.
Ok, marvels, paradises, ks9 are from one family of products for which new line of roger mics is produced - iN line. Select iN and pen iN.
If you buy such aid, idea is that you buy iN device, they come with licenses (phonak calls them receivers), and you transfer those licences in aids (which are ‘roger ready’ which means they have hardware but it is not activated eg licenced, using IT speech).
Transfer is done by just clicking on the mic’s button for that in specific order, and that’s it. No expert needed.
Also, you need just one iN device, because once hardware in aids is activated, it can work with any roger non educational mic, no matter if iN or regular version.
However, those aids can be convinced to work with regular roger mics.
For that, you need this hardware piece called installer and you need two roger x receivers to get the receivers out of them. By official phonak vocabulary.
See why I hate phonak, so, in IT words - you need two roger x cubes and you’ll grab licences from them and transfer into aids.
Way of transferring is that you’ll plug cube in installer device, put aid on top, click button on the installer and voila, license ‘moves’ into aids and hardware is active.
Point of confusion is that those x cubes really are used to directly plug in some aids through the direct audio shoe (dai) in one form or another, or plugging in some streamer (like resound multimic, if I remember the name correctly).
Another confusion, there’s roger my link receiver, which uses tcoil tech in aids and roger in it to send signal from mic to any tcoil enabled aid.
So at least several completely different things phonak calls ‘receiver’. I call ‘licence’ the one we transfer around.
And btw, it is really just some number / signal to toggle ‘true/false’ and activate or deactivate the hardware in marvel/paradise family.
Roger tech is the same, no matter if iN or regular device, in terms of with what it’s connect and work.
Currently only known difference is that this new aids family have a bit better hw and can catch the signal from bigger distance than when using other hardware solutions for receivers.
Another thing, very important, iN devices do not have BT. Main reason is because BT on regular roger devices kill the ability to use aids completely because of some bug / interference, so they just removed the BT and put licences in iN devices. Increasing the price accordingly.
Depends on the country though. In Germany both select cost around 1000 eur and each x cube is around 600. So it is definitely cheaper route buying one select iN than regular select and two Xes.
In UK, at one shop I’ve looked, select iN was for price of around 2 X cubes more expensive than regular select.
Roger direct or roger ready only means that hardware is there in aids. You still have to pay for licensing, one way or another.
I still think it would be better if phonak called things like cucumber, badger and tomato, it would be much easier to understand than with this mess of same or similar names for different things.
About tv connector, it pairs with aids independently of roger system.
My solution? I bought select iN new (for licences, and guarantee), and regular pen used from ebay. And if I decide for table mic, I’ll buy it used again. And I’ve skipped the thing of finding used X cubes which are new enough to work with paradises /marvels, or paying insane prices for new ones.
And just to add to the confusion, don’t the Roger X receivers have to be a certain serial number or bigger?
Yes you are so right! From others posting on the forum I understand the 1st 4 digits have to be 1744 or higher.
I love how we all share what we know, and learn from each other
Wow thanks again for the very comprehensive responses. I am an IT professional, technology is my living and I’ve been really struggling with understanding al the bits and pieces of Phonak and Roger and their terminology, so thanks for clarifying! Regarding the quote above about BT… can I clarify, you are referring to BT in nthe Roger devices right? The KS9’s or Brio4’s still have BT capability to connect, for example, to a mobile phone right? This is key for my dad as well as he really struggles sometimes with hearing on his mobile.
Aids have BT, that’s reason why iN devices don’t.
I’ve tested regular pen with marvels and the moment you turn on BT on pen, aids go crazy, get in some switching loop of changing programs and basically being unusable. So for iN mics they removed BT. Regular mics with BT turned off work normally as the iN mics would.
I’m in IT and took me days of digging to understand phonak’ s naming system. Judging by how many people calls thing ‘licence’ now, looks like we all thing that’s better naming than original phonak makes nice devices but is utterly incompetent in sharing proper information and making things clear for us but also for dispensers. Hell, even phonak audiology department guy which my fitter called didn’t know if I need both select iN and pen iN or will regular pen work. Actually he said that if I want pen to work, I need pen and x cubes despite having select iN. So yeah, phonak is really bad at informing their employees and the rest of us in promptly and accurate manner.
On the bright side, at least you can dig it up, which cannot be said for others
Weird weird world is this HA one
The Roger stuff is great but can be expensive. If you are willing to spend the $$ by far the easiest way is to just go all Phonak and have an audiologist set it all up for you.
If you want to save $$ and go KS9s & the installers & Ebay & Target & Noahlinks, things can get real complicated. Especially with Ebay sleeze and defective items. You can do it but expect to be hanging around here asking lots of questions. You will save $$ and it can be fun if you like that sort of thing but-----------
KS9 should work with select iN (eg i don’t see any reason not to, and I think someone did trial select with ks9, no?), so no need to go eBay route either, nor all phonak.
Also, you don’t need programming sw or device to transfer licences, neither from x cubes nor from iN device.
Roger stuff is crazy expensive if you ask me. But worth every cent in my case. I think best is to trial it if possible to see what they bring to you exactly, so get select from offline dispenser not ebay.
In Canada we dont have iN line of rogers. This is how i did it. I bought at costco then went to a fm only store that sells to schools fm systems. He installed my recivers. Paid 350 a receiver. Pen bought used
Total cost for ks9 was 2000. Each receiver 350, pen 100 and other pen 250