Can Marvels be locked?

Is there a special version of Target that enables one to lock the programming of Marvels so no one else can program them?
The reason I ask is because an audiologist from the VA called me today to say that they were mailing my aids back tomorrow. She said that they had reprogrammed them back to what they should be. That wasn’t true because I put them back to the original programming before I sent them. Anyway, she said that I was not allowed to change the programming in my aids, and that if they detected that I had done so, they would lock them to prevent me doing so again. AT that point, I told her that if that was the case, they should just keep them because the way they programmed them, they were useless to me. I still have an August appointment with the clinic over in Georgia. I don’t know how that will go. I am going to ask for another hearing test and just see what happens next. I am through with the folks in Birmingham.

No there’s not a special version of target for Phonak Marvel HAs, but you can lock them so they can’t change the programming on you easily enough, I don’t understand how these people work, but the HAs are yours, you own them, the VA work for you, so they need to get over themselves and actually do as you ask them to do, same goes with any audiology clinic, you employ the audiologist to make changes and to do as you ask them to do, it always amazes me with these clinics, that they actually think they have the right to tell you how, when, why or what you’re doing with your own hearing aids, some people pay truely outrageous prices from most of these clinics as well and then get told how they will be using them!

I have used Target a good amount, but I never saw anything like that. Can you tell me which screen it is on, and how you lock them?

She will still get a DateTimestamp mismatch even if you restore the settings back to her original settings. As explanation about DateTimestamps here’s a clip (see last paragraph) from one of my self-programming-help topics;

The hearing aid fitting software will warn you about mismatched settings when the DateTimestamp of the hearing aid settings is a mismatch with the DateTimestamp of your database settings and it will prompt you to choose which settings to use (hearing aids or database). You will get this warning the first time you connect your hearing aids. Think about why your hearing aid/HA settings differ from your database settings? If your hearing aids were last programmed by your Audiologist then;

  • The HA Settings are your Audi’s last settings
  • Your database will have no settings when this is the first time you are connecting

At the end of each fitting session the software gives you 3 choices for where to save the settings;

  • The hearing aids
  • The database
  • Both the hearing aids and the database

For your first-self-programming-fitting-session you want to use the settings from the HAs, make no changes, and save the original settings to your database. This will produce a database copy of your Audi’s original unchanged-settings in case you need to fall back to these Original Professional Settings.

Noteworthy is that when/if you return to your Audiologist then your Audi will get the same mismatch warning. The warning will occur even if you restore the Original Professional Settings because it is based on the DateTimestamp, and not based on a comparison of the settings. In other words your Audiologist will always know when someone has saved any settings to the hearing aids.

Oh sorry, I forgot that you were on the other thread that discussed DateTimestamp. I don’t know about any Phonak Target locking mechanism? Oticon has Preferences where you can specify a pin-code.

You can go to setup and then fitting session,then click on fitting, from there you can enable password protected fitting.

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Thanks for that. I will check it out. If I can lock the VA out, I will call back and tell them I was a little impulsive and I do want them back. If I ever need to let them look at them again, they won’t be able to change anything I have done.

I didn’t care if they knew I had read/programmed them. I just wanted them to see the same programming they had done. Even if the timestamp was different, the settings were the same. The changes I made are none of their business.

Well Phonak does have a Reset/Reset-to-factory-defaults. They added the Reset option when iCube started bricking (hearing aids/Has) and the HAs had to be sent back to the factory. I’m not sure if Reset will override the password-protected-fitting?? But Yes, I think maybe it will.

It’s best to avoid an adversarial relationship with your Audi. Though it may be too late :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I always discuss self-fitting up front and tell my VA-Audi that I have great respect for their professional fitting and especially their REM adjustments. But that I might want to make simple changes like remote streaming Bass Boost or volume. But they can always feel free to just go ahead and set them back to the Audi’s database because I can easily make my streaming changes again.

Yes, the Audis get upset when they see that different setting were saved to the HAs and you have not had any prior discussions about it. They don’t know (and can’t tell) what the changes are. They only know it’s not their last fitting. They quickly conclude that they are the professional and you are the amateur.

Actually they do have a valid point. But it is your hearing. It’s also your hearing aids.

Hey, if Reset overrides password-protection then password-protection locks don’t really matter.

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Thanks PVC I am going to look into that today. I have a pair of Audeo B50s I bought used a while back, and I can try the password thing on them. Also try setting back to factory defaults. I can’t say my relationship with VA audiologists has been exactly adversarial, I haven’t seen the same one twice. But they definitely have an attitude that I don’t really care for. I have told them that whatever they are doing with the programming isn’t working, and they just say to keep on wearing them. They don’t really listen. If I can figure out the locking thing, I am going to call and tell them I was a little impulsive in telling them to keep the aids, and that I would really like them back. Then, I will lock them myself. If reset to factory defaults can overcome a lock, I will just tell them to go ahead and lock them, I don’t care. The way I look at it is that they are my aids. I can program them if I want. And, I know more about my hearing than they possibly could. It doesn’t really matter either way. I was already about fed up with the VA anyway. I have about decided that hearing aids aren’t going to help me anyway, so if I don’t get them back, it is no big deal. I have an appointment with a clinic in Georgia for August. I don’t know how they will be, but I am going to go and just tell them about my experience with the Birmingham clinic. They may just show me the door. And that’s OK.

Thought i would post an update if anyone is interested. I don’t have my Marvels back yet, so I experimented with some Belong B50s. If I enable password locking, save info in aids to database, and aids, then quit, then re open Target, I can load that session and make changes. So, right there it looks like locking isn’t very effective. If I select “Use data from aids”, it asks for the password. Doing a “Reset to factory defaults” gets rid of the password protection. I don’t know if Marvels are different, but if and when they return mine, I intend to find out. Then, it will be “Up yours, VA”.

The VA doesn’t have to know what changes you are making. When the VA gets a DateTimestamp mismatch and they are asked which settings to use?

  • They will always choose their database settings!
  • They will never choose your HA settings, therefore they will never even see your settings!

So in preparation for a future VA Audi visit (if any) you can just tell them you adjusted some streaming controls for better streaming clarity/voice recognition or some other harmless little change that has nothing to do with the main hearing loss programming.

Maybe they will relax (like smoked bees) and be satisfied that you are not trying discard their programming. Then go home and do what you want :wink:

I don’t know yet if I will get them back. If I do, I will add password protection just to see if I can defeat it. Then, most likely, I will do a reset to factory defaults and re program. I don’t intend to try to hide the fact that I have reprogrammed them, just the changes I have made. I need to ask, at some point whether or not they belong to me, or if they are just on loan from the VA. If they say they are mine, I will tell them I will program them as often as I like in whatever manner I like, since they are my property. If they say they belong to the VA and I just have them on loan, I will return them. Every time they have programmed them, I had to change it in order to be able to wear them. They are unpleasant to the point of being painful the way they seem to insist on doing things. I have told them this, to no avail. Others here have waxed enthusiastic about how well they were treated by the VA. That has not been the case with me. If I have to communicate with them again, I will likely burn that bridge behind me. I may have already done that. But, I think they are used to dealing with old, curmudgeonly vets, and I might not have offended her all that badly. That probably won’t be the case next time.

I think Yes you will get them back! Afaik> The HAs are your possession given to you by grateful USA taxpayers. The VA does not have ownership of the HAs. You do! Otherwise, they would have had you sign a document about your limitations under VA ownership.

I think you could even sell them if you choose to do so. Though, you only get one pair every four years or so.

Thanks PVC. If they are indeed my property, the next time they start telling me I can’t program my own aids, I’ll tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine. There is one fellow here who said recently that he is on his 4th pair. It seems he keeps trying them and not liking them, so. It is good to see you back. Perhaps you never left, but I haven’t heard anything from you in a while. The first pair they gave me were Resounds. They did nothing for me, at all. I gave them back and asked for Marvels. I was actually surprised they got the Marvels for me. The audiologist who fitted the Resounds said they pretty much only fitted Resounds and didn’t fool with Phonak. One audiologist told me they didn’t use frequency lowering, while a different one said they did. Either way, they don’t seem to have a clue how to properly fit them for me. Every time they have made adjustments, I couldn’t stand to wear them. That is why I resorted to doing my own programming. If they really could lock the programming, I would definitely give them back because they would be worthless to me. I have to use frequency lowering to get any results at all. I have thought of asking for a different brand, but I haven’t seen anything that indicates that any other brand does frequency lowering better than Phonak. I enabled it in those Resounds and couldn’t tell that it did anything at all.

Oticon has Speech Rescue. Frequency lowering works better for some hearing losses than others;

You should avoid discussions about sunshine with the VA. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: They have many options about which (excellent/top-of-the-line) equipment and service gets delivered to you. For example; they may ask you to write a letter that will justify your need for wireless accessories.

Don’t burn bridges. Just try to fly under their radar.

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I think my time with the Birmingham VA Audiology clinic has about come to its end. If they were a commercial enterprise, they would have gone out of business long ago. I have an appointment with a closer clinic in Georgia for August, if it doesn’t get put off indefinitely. Perhaps I will mention trading the Phonaks for Oticon then. How easy is it to obtain the Oticon software? I assume a Noahlink Wireless will program them. Actually, I have had such a bad experience with the VA and hearing aids in general, I am thinking about just giving up on aids entirely. As bad as my hearing is, about the only times it gives me problems is watching TV, and talking to people, especially in noisy situations. The Phonaks with the TV Connector help with TV. People are still a problem.

The Oticon Genie2 software is easily available, but why not stick with what you know, the Phonak Marvel HAs you have being using are just as good as anything else on the market, besides your setup to program them now anyway, just keep programming them until you feel they are doing something for you, it can take many months and patience to find that sweet spot.

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I usually don’t recommend a specific brand of hearing aids because each brand has fanboys/fangirls and posting a favorable opinion about a brand tends to classify you as another fanboy/fangirl. But what the heck. Since we have already started;

Yes, you should try Oticon, models (Opn and OpnS). They process the sound very differently than Phonak using their (new since the Oticon Opn model) “open” paradigm. Here’s one example where @Volusiano talks about the open technology. You may have to scroll down a little.

My wife and myself both hate the sound from Phonak hearing aids, and we both love the sound from Oticon Opn hearing aids. Though, we have not tried the latest Phonaks/Marvels. I think it would be similar because it was Autosense that we didn’t like and they still use Autosense, version 3.0.

Yes, it could take months for certain hearing losses to be adjusted correctly. But I have had no such experience? My settings+REM were good from the get-go. She needed different acoustics and more Bass. But that didn’t take months.

When you say sound, do you mean like music and everyday noise, or also speech?

When I trialed my first HA several years ago, I found Oticon (Nera I think it was) comfortable, but useless for speech understanding. Widex was the only one where I could get something out of it. I think I tried Phonak as well and pulled it out of my ear immediately bc of screeching type of sounds. Some other I think as well, no good.

However, now after few years of Widex, and with additional loss it’s again only sound ok, but speech clarity failed especially in any non-own-flat-quiet situations, I’ve tested phonak marvels 70, and I must say that I’m impressed. Even though that audi IMO has no clue about best fitting with testing for me, phonak default + streaming enabled me to finally understand things being said on tv and also through roger select.

I decided that since I have left ear ok, sound will always be crazy sounding, but I want speech understanding as best as possible. And direct android streaming without buying new phone, so marvels are basically only option.

I still wonder how would the color of sound as I call it be with different modern aids, but better not trying :rofl:

And btw, I see no problem of liking something and having preference for this and not that. I don’t think being fanboy is bad either. I see forum discussion as only proper opportunity to actually get those personal opinions and preferences and various reasons for them. Other people are free to check out paid amazon reviews :wink: