Before (unaided) and after (aided) audiograms

I have a set of Vivatone outside the ear aids. My audiologist tells me that there is no way to get an audiogram with the aids in to compare to the unaided audiogram. So, to me at least, I can’t tell how much correction the aids provide. I do hear better, but I really would like to compare a before/after set of audiograms.

Using a set of free field speakers you can perform an
audiipogram with the hearing aids on…

that would not give much information…

if you wish to verify your fitting, REM must be perform.

Thank you very much for the reply. What is REM, please?

Sounds like he means “Real Ear Measurment”

More info:

Thanks very much for that link.

No problem…how’s the weather over there? I just read about TS Fay causing a lot of problems and still moving west…

Don’t you love the Internet?? Google??? The answer is usually out there if you know what to ask and where to go…if it’s not there yet, the product is too new…

Fay wasn’t a problem here in St Petersburg. We’ve had some on and off rain for the past couple of days, but nothing unusual. We were lucky!

Yes, I do love the Internet.

The main reason that “aided audiograms” are becoming less relevant is because of the way hearing aids digitally manipulate sound through “noise reduction” or “noise cancelling” programs. Put simply, modern digital hearing devices are programmed to emphasise speech over noise, and pure-tones through a soundfield system is usually easily identified by the devices as non-speech noise. Aided testing really is only relevant in terms of speech discrimination in quiet and/or competing background noise.

if you wish to verify your fitting, REM must be performed.

… but don’t forget that REM checks the hearing aid performance against an EQUATION and NOT against your true hearing.

REM is better than nothing but is NOT any sort of magic solution.

A word of caution : REM allows ‘verification’ … BUT … the end user wants ‘validation’.

So true! This validation as a key point at a recent conference i went to (Tri-state Hearing Conference in Seattle).
What tests do you prefer to use for Validation? Ever do HINT? Soundfield speech discrim?

When I asked my current Audi if she did “REM” after reading and being told that it should be done before I purchase hearing aids. Her response to me was that only people who don’t know their product do REM and if she programmed the aids using REM, I would hate them. I’m still a bit confused on this issue. Can anyone clarify the use or REM. Thanks!

That’s not strictly true though is it…

A REM will only measure itself a against a given test signal and prescribed output if you tell it to work like that. Nobody’s saying it’s a silver bullet, but you can learn a lot about the efficacy of modifications to your prescription if you REM them properly with live speech.

She may know the performance of her sofware, but she’s unlikely to know the effect of the impedance of your ear canal. Imagine shouting into a cave, then a railway tunnel, then a tunnel ending in water. If she can accurately predict the effect of these situations without some trial and error, I’ll give her a job. If she uses trial and error, then she’s human like the rest of us: if we use the REM and it skips two of the five follow-ups, the it’s your time we’ve saved and your fitted more happily.

Not true, sound like an excuse not to perform REM (visible speech). Visible speech
could check, that the entire spectrum from soft to loud sounds are within your
dinamic range, it is the way to go…

XBuilder, Thanks for your response. I now agree with you that my audi is using that as an excuse. I’m currently on trial with the Agile Pro and Phonak SMART - both with power receiver/double dome. I don’t think this audi is proficient with programming - she’s more of a “salesman”. I know I have a complicated hearing loss and I need someone who can recommend the best HA for my loss and KNOW how to program them! Do you know anyone in the Ft. Lauderdale area that you could recommend?