Automatic volume learning - Phonak

I was chatting with someone on another forum about the automatic adjustment settings that allow the hearing aids to learn over time if you frequently turn the volume up. I am curious as to a bit more on how this works. Does it relate to individual programs or across the board? For example, if I always turn up the volume in program 1, will it increase the volume of only program 1 or all the programs? My program 1 is still ridiculously quiet but I don’t want it to “learn” to turn up the whole hearing aid on every program. Equally if P1 is too quiet and P3 too loud I will just end up with no effect from volume learning unless it’s program-specific. I don’t think it would be well received if I booked a review appointment just to get this adjusted. How many times do you have to increase the volume before it learns?

Is there a limit to how much they can be turned up or down by user preference logging? I was thinking of 2 examples, either of which could be done by my mum! Audiology sets the volume appropriately for a new user, but the user, having not been used to all this influx of new sound, turns the hearing aids down regularly day after day to remove this unfamiliar sensation. Gradually, the hearing aids “learn” that this user needs a lower volume setting, and she ends up removing all the gain and restoring her previous comfortable but not very functional level of hearing.

Equally, imagine a patient who doesn’t take great care of the instruments. Each day the hearing aids don’t seem to be loud enough, patient turns them up. Next day she turns them up more, turns them up more, gradually the volume learning mechanism realises this patient needs her hearing aids much louder. Until her daughter arrives and cleans the wax out of her earmoulds, whereupon patient puts clean hearing aids in and practically blows her cochlears inside out.

Are limitations in place to prevent either/both of those scenarios? At what level is it limited, is it in relation to original settings or just that it will not exceed the maximum output?

This is where it came from originally here

sheesh, first it tells me I am trying to post again too soon, so I leave it a while and it tells me my time to post has run out and I have to log in again!

Thanks, that was very interesting, but did not go into any detail about limitations, only that it should learn preferences for particular environments. It didn’t say that clinicians could or should set a maximum or minimum limit on volume learning or whether changes affect single programs or the overall hearing aid, although it did seem to indicate that the Soundflow program should automatically select the program you manually selected previously. I’ve been turning my P1 volume up by 8dB every time I use it for about a year and have yet to notice any difference which I find odd.

It’s set on different parameters/limits on different aids. The Unitron system will deviate by half the adjusted amount in whichever direction between battery door closing and opening cycles. If you constantly adjust in one direction you will hit a limit from the original prescription data.

Sounds like the self-learning in your aids is either disabled or at a limit.

Each program usually self-learns separately. There would be no point in increasing a music program when all you needed was better speech clarity in noise.

The current Unitron system has a better learning function which allow the user to establish more ‘speech-focus’ which doesn’t just adjust the volume, but also the speech enhancement, directionality and noise management in one hit.

Ah, my mistake, on the other forum I had been talking already about specific hearing aids and assumed I had specified, it’s a Phonak Nathos (Mostly a Naida V CORE) SP

Sounds like I’ll need to book an adjustment :rolleyes: It was definitely enabled as on my previous hearing aids I asked specially for it to be turned off and they had a long debate with me about whether I wanted it on these ones and they put it on. But then that would also make no sense because P1 has never had any noticeable increase in volume over the course of a year of turning it up every time I use it, so it must have been activated but somehow limited to +0dB in this program. Ironically, I now rarely use that program because it’s so quiet, thus I’m not engaging it each day and turning the volume up any more so it’s probably learned that I don’t like that program, which I do, I just wish I could hear something!

I didn’t know this was included on the Phonak Core product, unless it was a retrospective addition to the Nathos range.

If it uses a neural network, these have a hidden layer such that no one knows what exactly they are learning.