It sounds like that might be a Widex Evoke hearing aid. They do have a name for good sound quality. If you really want a linear correction you should ask the fitter about using the 1/3 gain formula. It does not use any compression. Many different hearing aids could probably be set up to use the 1/3 gain. It is seldom used now as more sophisticated hearing aids can use compression and most benefit from compression. What you might want to try is a trial of a hearing aid that can do the common NAL-NL2 prescription, DSL v5, and 1/3 gain. Ask to have the hearing aid set up to put each prescription forumula in a different program. Then you can compare at home how each formula sounds in comparison to the others.
Talked to my Audi today and shared some reverse slope info that I have gathered here. I am trialing some Phonal Marvel Audeo 30 (Low/Entry Level) that he insisted on my trying with closed domes and a preset that makes them semi-linear. Had them for over a week and didn’t like them, my ears felt plugged (He tried smaller domes too, same issue) and my overall hearing was about the same as my Oticon Ria2’s I’ve had for 4 years. One thing I did like was hearing in the car was slightly improved.
Anyway, today he set them to NAL-NA2 with gain off above 6K, he turned off some other bells and whistles(sorry not sure what) with some open domes and they were immediately more comfortable in my ears and sounded better. We walked outside his office with some traffic noise, birds etc and I could hear him speaking pretty well.
I’m looking forward to going home tonight and seeing how my wife and 2 year old daughters voices sound…A big issue I have is hearing/understanding their relatively soft/high voices.
Additionally, he is pushing Phonak hard as he says he sells 90% Phonak and knows the software the best. He has no Signia’s (I’m interested in the Styletto possibly) or any other brand to demo but I can test/demo Phonaks as much as I’d like. I think he’s interested in learning more about RSHL which is nice.
Thanks.
Mark
*I also added my hearing test here today.
You should have no trouble getting high frequencies with that type of loss even with open fittings. The problem may be in getting enough gain in the low frequencies (below 2 kHz). An open fitting essentially lets sound pressure leak out and can restrict the gain the HA can supply.
That is an interesting loss. Here is what I got for four different types of fitting formulas:
Connexx SmartFit, molds with 2.5 mm vent in right, and 2.0 in left. This formula uses compression. The upper lighter line is the gain for soft sounds, and the lower lighter line is the gain for loud sounds.
NAL-NL2
DSL v5
And here is the 1/3 gain which does not use any compression. Notice that there is no upper and lower gain lines. I reduced the vent size to 1.6 mm to increase the bass.
The point is that they are very different prescription formulas and they will probably sound very different. The trial and error method would be to get some trial HA’s programmed with the different prescriptions in different programs so you can compare them on one hearing aid when at home. Then when you find the best formula then tweak it until it sounds as good as it can be.
Wow! Thanks so much. Will shoot this over to my audi.
Some comments on each of the prescription formulas:
SmartFit - You would have to use a Signia, Rexton, or Kirkland HA to get this one. It has fairly high compression, and follows your specific loss more closely than the others. Each manufacturer probably has a proprietary formula that may attempt similar things.
NAL-NL2 - More smooth response over the spectrum that does not fluctuate as much across the frequency range for your specific loss. It has a higher amount of compression.
DSL v5 - Has the least amount of compression for the formulas that use compression, and essentially no compression at higher frequencies. I would put some money on that one possibly working…
1/3 Gain - No compression. It is going to make loud sounds louder than the rest of the formulas across the whole frequency range. And, soft sounds are going to sound softer than the rest. Although it may be similar to DSL v5 at higher frequencies.
Again, the ideal way to trial them would be to put each formula in 4 different programs and try them all at home. The Kirkland HA’s could do that for you.
Thanks again and again for your time and opinion.
I want to piggy back my other post here so I have a one-stop location for all the info I need. I have 2 seperate questions:
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Can I, in your opinion, achieve quality hearing with any ITE style or is RIC far and away the best choice for me? If ITE is still in the mix, what style specifically?
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I have the opportunity to get any of the devices from the list below for $599 per aid w/ a 1 year warranty, batteries (if applicable) for a year, and unlimited office visits, will any of these specifically outperform another or offer better bang for my buck over another?
*I would like wireless streaming capability (on iPhone) if at all possible but I’m not opposed to a streamer device as I’ve become used to wearing one from my current Oticons. I don’t really have any other “must have” requirements.
You have a very different loss in the low frequency range. In the higher frequencies ITE should be no problem with feedback. In the lows, I have no experience. Will defer to others on this one…
I can’t see your hearing loss for some reason, but estimating from those gain targets it looks like a great loss for the lyric. I can see why you’re frustrated. In my experience, some of that plugged feeling for reverse slope can be improved by overamplifying the highs relative to what typical targets want, but if you are sensitive to occlusion with the lows an ITE isn’t going to be great.
I currently have a few pairs of brand new analog devices I would like to sell. If you are interested.
Have you tried Lucid hearing aids offered at Sam’s Clubs? Disclosure: I am an HIS at a Sam’s Club.
Lucid aids use a totally different algorithm than any other aid of which I’m aware. Whereas other aids use WDRC (Wide Dynamic Range Compression), Lucid aids use ADRO (Adaptive Dynamic Range Optimization). The explanation of the differences between the two is the perfect cure for insomnia, but in short, instead of compressing sound to fit a specific sound “picture”, ADRO uses fuzzy logic to optimize output in each frequency linearly. In fact, ADRO is used to some extent in cochlear implants.
I have worked with both WDRC and ADRO. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the feedback from patients who have worn both and love ADRO. Granted, that is anecdotal, but it won’t hurt giving it a shot. A top-of-the-line pair of 128 channel hearing aids at Sam’s runs about $4800. You won’t be able to have a trial run with them, however, as Sam’s is not going to let ANYthing leave the club without it being paid for. That being said, you get a 90 day, no quibble, 100% money back guarantee.
Not trying to advertise. I’m just giving you facts as to what to expect.
One other thing that Lucid does that I didn’t experience anywhere else is a part of the fitting process called Loudness Balance. It essentially takes the place of REM. What happens is a “first fit” is applied to the hearing aids. Then, the specialist plays a tone at 1.5Hz. You are asked if that tone is a comfortable volume to you, or is it too loud, or too muffled. After that, tones are played at 2k, 3k, 4k, and 6k with the goal of adjusting the volume to equal that of the first tone played. If you are wearing an occluded fit, you will also repeat the process going down the frequency ladder. It’s kind of a cool concept in that it combines verification with validation, giving comfortable, even sound across the sound spectrum. If nothing else, the test and fitting cost you nothing. Trying a whole new algorithm that uses more linear adjustments vs. compression, might give you the sound your looking for.
I hope this helps.
Your literally the 1st person who thought that Lyrics would appear to be a good HA for me. The 3 Audi’s I have dealt with locally just didn’t “get it” or fully believe me that I could actually hear very well with them. As I have mentioned, they calm my 24/7 LOUD tuning fork sounding tinnitus like NO other aid I have ever tried.
I think I want to trial some Signia’s next and follow Sierra’s setups and see how that goes. Although my current Audi is reluctant since he doesn’t stock them and with my insurance plan (it’s really just a negotiated discount plan) he claims he’s getting paid peanuts.
To shawn.garza…I was interested in your description of loudness balance. I accidentally stumbled on a way to make some poorly adjusted aids work for me using the piano keyboard instead of tuning forks. When playing notes consecutively up and down the keyboard I noticed there were two spans of notes that were noticeably louder than the others. I mentioned this to my audiologist, but nothing was done to correct it. I came home and started experimenting with various setting of the aids to see if I could get those notes back to the same loudness level as the other keys. In my case, it worked to shift to a speech in noise program and turn the volume of the aids up one notch. I lived for many months with this setting. When the notes were heard in balance I heard other things better too.
I have since had REM done after resetting the aids completely. That also leaves the piano keyboard sounding balanced, and with that done as a new starting point my aids are working the best they have for me. The Lucid tuning sounds like a valid way to go if REM is not available for some reason.
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That’s interesting.
Might have to buy a cheap small electric piano.
Ah, your loss shows up for me now. Are you ACTUALLY sensitive to occlusion? When you plug your ears tight with your fingers, do you get a weird, bothersome effect on your own voice? Or can you just not hear well? It may just be a programming issue.
One could, in a pinch, putty a lyric with the settings you prefer into a verification system and then match its output as closely as possible with any old digital hearing aid and see how that sounds. There would need to be adjustments for insertion depth.
It would be interesting to see what the settings are that the Lyric defaults to for your loss, but I can’t do that from my home computer.
I came across the post, having been in the same situation. I appreciate all of the replies and suggestions, but I want to point out that the original poster’s preference for analog is wholly valid. What I don’t understand is why so much time and effort gets put into trying to come up with fixes and workarounds instead of just…making an analog hearing aid again?
I think it is particularly important that audiologists (who are certainly helpful in recommending fixes) understand how pervasive this preference is for analog, given that they are in a better position than patients to communicate this to the manufacturers.
Otherwise, I will only say that what the original poster is probably missing is the fullness of sound from an analog signal; once sonic information is lost during the sampling process, no amount of tinkering can restore it.
I would say yes, I do get a bothersome effect on my own voice when I plug my ears.
Thanks!
Yes…I really can’t emphasize enough how the Lyrics work for me and all the digitals I’ve tried just seem like glorified ear plugs that allow me to hear the damn refrigerator running but I can’t hear the TV in front of me nor my wife speaking to me from the next room…
I’m just very frustrated at this point. I have a local audi willing to work with me on programming etc but it’s literally exhausting. I’m taking a break from seeing him. Hopefully I’ll get more motivated to try again this winter as my work and family schedule is less hectic.
Thanks for the understanding.
Of course – I’m in the same boat really. I really think it’s important to emphasize to audiologists that our preference for analog is stable and not going away. They need to signal to manufacturers that we want and will buy analog devices. We can also contact manufacturers directly, but it’s hard to tell how much our communications get through.
If you have any ideas of your own for how to go about this, I’m all ears.
You might want to google the EarLens. I think it has been approved in America.