Annoying ReSound Future problem

I’ve had my ReSound Future hearing aids for a couple of months. During my early followup visit with the Costco hearing aid fitter, I told him that on one or two occasions my hearing aid (one or the other) picked up an apparent single-frequency sound from it’s source and made it seem as if it was coming directly from my hearing aid (like the programmed beep signals do), and at high amplification. It was the first he had such a complaint and had no answer for it. Since then I’ve experienced this many times, especially while watching movies or programs on our HD flat panel TV. It will happen when, for instance, a musical note is being played. One particular occasion stands out: A movie scene in which a person rang a buzzer to gain access to an apartment complex. The instant he put his finger on the buzzer the sound loudly emanated directly from my hearing aid! It didn’t sound like it came from the TV speakers at all. I intend to bring this up with Costco again, but first thought I’d see if anyone else out there has had a similar experience.

I use Futures, too. I haven’t had what you describe, but on occasion a particular note coming from the tv will sound a bit like feedback for a moment or two.

Thanks for replying. Most times what I described is of short duration, probably only as long as the particular tone is being transmitted. But that apartment buzzer was pressed for several seconds and I heard it very loudly the whole time. I would suspect a faulty hearing aid if it weren’t for the fact that this had occurred in each hearing aid at different times, I guess depending on the note being transmitted. Only once, I believe, did both aids pick up the sound at the same time.

The problem you are describing is called entrainment. It is very common in old fashioned feedback management systems.

A hearing aid must constantly scan for noises that it thinks are precursors to feedback. If it hears something resembling feedback such as that noise you describe on the TV or a musical note or tone of some kind, the aid freaks out trying to eliminate feedback. Of course the aid cannot stop feedback that isn’t actually happening, and during its little freak out will make an annoying noise. The irony being that the very thing it was trying to avoid has just been triggered by an external sound that wasn’t feedback.

A modern system with a good feedback management system will resolve the issue, so next time you get aids it shouldn’t be an issue. In the meantime ask your hearing professional if the feedback management system has an ‘active’ or ‘static’ setting. The latter is slightly less efficient at preventing feedback, but much more effective at not causing entrainment.

And shame on your hearing professional for not knowing what entrainment is :eek:

Thanks ZCT. I will copy your response and take it with me when I meet with the “Hearing Instrument Fitter Dispenser,” as he is titled on his business card. May have to get him to consult with someone more knowledgeable. But with due respect, he did to know a lot about the ReSound Future and how it’s specifications compared to those of the ReSound Alera models, an issue that others tend to obfuscate. That gave me confidence in knowing what I was buying at such a comparatively reasonable price.

I make no secret of being biased. Starkey solved the problem of entrainment in 2006 with their Destiny product after they added Bluwave to it. So when I hear of modern aids purchased in recent times suffering from this problem, it’s hard not to shake my head.

ReSound is part of the massive GN group, surely they should have put this problem to bed by now?

The price list I work from which starts at $750 an aid doesn’t have a single product on it that has this issue, so I don’t see any excuse for that in this day and age. And since this issue has been well known and understood for a decade or so, I don’t understand how this can befuddle a hearing professional.

Sorry for my bluntness. Good luck resolving it.

I expect all the major manufacturers have solved this issue. By assuming they have not solved it may appear to give the hearing professional involved the benefit of any doubt, but it gives people the impression that you are pushing Starkey products as superior to the others that you, admittedly, do not have much knowledge of.

I really believe that I had entrainment issues with the Phonak aids I tried last year. When I tried to describe what was happening, the AuD. had no idea what I was talking about. After reading the experiences of others on this forum, I am convinced the issue was poor programming, not the capabilities of the hearing aids.

Ignore ZCT, he’s a Starkey dealer. It’s like a Chevy dealer talking about Ford.

Your person should be able to make the adjustment needed. It’s not unusual to need several adjustments to get everything just right.

I only claim not to have much current practical fitting knowledge of other brands. However, I have seen detailed case studies and academic research doing direct scientific testing of all major manufacturers feedback cancellation systems, and Starkey was proven to be number one in the world, providing 28dB of added stable gain without entrainment. Other manufacturers as of this time cannot approach this level of added stable gain, are still having issues of entrainment, and worse, some manufacturers lock out frequency response of their own aids in a crude manner to avoid entrainment or feedback.

So in some areas Starkey has credible scientific evidence of their superiority to other brands, and despite many years of opportunity no other brand has disproved said research or put out anything that would prove an alternative conclusion. Although I am more than happy for one of the hearing professionals who currently is an expert in other brands to prove me wrong on this. Show me peer reviewed scientific comparisons of feedback management systems where another brand is proven to have superior feedback cancellation.

When it comes to feedback management, Starkey is king. Now were we talking about CROS systems, implants, semi-permanent aids, Bluetooth or whatever, there are certainly other brands that could claim significant superiority to Starkey with ease. But in this specific area, one that I think it hugely important for a significant percentage of the HoH community, Starkey is undisputed number one. And that’s not an opinion, it is the conclusion of multiple credible peer reviewed scientific papers.

Entrainment is a design flaw of the hearing aid feedback cancellation technology. Any good hearing professional should know what it is, as I said before this has been well known and documented for a good ten years. Now there are usually work arounds. Back when Starkey still had this problem in say 2005, the fix was to turn off adaptive feedback management and go for static. I’m sure other brands have the equivalent. It does reduce the effectiveness of the anti-feedback system, and it does reduce added stable gain and possibly frequency response. But it will pretty much kill off the entrainment.

I was not disputing what you said, but I thought that if was maybe toned down a little, you would have fewer “enemies” on this forum.

I still have some periodic entrainment with my Micro Tech (Starkey) aids, but it is minor compared to what I experienced in the Phonak trial.

No matter how one tones it down on this forum there will always be haters, bitter about their loss, the industry, the cost of aids, profits, technology, their hearing professional etc etc. So I’ll just shoot straight as I see it and people will either like it or not. Their choice.

I am passionate about what I do. I help people to hear, and I speak out against those who I believe are hurting or misleading the HoH community. I also detest professional incompetence, like this idiot the OP referenced who doesn’t know what entrainment is. I mean this is hearing professional 101! What the hell else does he not know? And how else is he harming the reputation of our profession with his willful ignorance?

When we earn our professional licenses we are undertaking to help a section of the community with their hearing; an incredibly important role of trust. When some of us fail to learn what we should be learning, when we fail to educate ourselves, when we fail to seek self improvement, we are failing our patients and our colleagues in the same profession.

The very first time a patient complained to me about entrainment (I remember the case very well; her car door chime was setting it off), I called up the lab, got a senior doctor of audiology on the phone (who was an expert trouble shooter for Starkey products), learned what entrainment was (it didn’t exist when I got my license originally so was not part of my initial education), learned what the fix was, applied the fix and sent the patient on the way. I didn’t sit there with a blank look on my face and send the patient out into the world with that annoying problem. It didn’t take experience or better qualifications to make that phone call, just the desire to make my patient happy.

As for this forum I’ve only had to ‘ignore’ three people, and by contrast I’ve had dozens of really nice PMs thanking me for my advice. So many in fact that I’ve had to delete most of them so I can still get messages in my inbox.

I actually think many on this forum have been way too soft on those pushing cheap European imports, dispensed cheaply by inexperienced hearing professionals at big box retailers like Costco et al.

When you buy a set of aids at Costco for two grand, there is a reason they are so much cheaper than private clinics offering superior technology. There is always a place for cheap products for those on a limited income of course, but there does need to be some honesty about the drawbacks too.

Oh and regarding your MicroTech aids, that same solution I mentioned is still possible. Make sure you have the latest firmware installed, make sure the feedback calibration has been run correctly (in a silent room while you are wearing them), and if you are getting something that you think is mild entrainment (which I honestly have not seen with Starkey since 2006), then have your hearing professional set the feedback cancellation system to ‘static’ and you should be golden. It’s worth a try, he can always switch back to ‘adaptive.’

Drop the cheap jingoistic shots, it lessens your positive arguments.

There’s nothing ‘cheap’ about the output from the five top manufacturers.

I like the way that you drop the S word into every post to keep the Google Analytics ticking over too…

I experience the same effect albeit with the Phonak Audeo S V’s.

go to any manufacturers web site and they all claim to have solved all the problems of the HA world… just like most decent cars you just need to find the right mechanic to do the tune-up and a lot of times they aren’t employed by the dealerships.

I actually think many on this forum have been way too soft on those pushing cheap European imports, dispensed cheaply by inexperienced hearing professionals at big box retailers like Costco et al.

When you buy a set of aids at Costco for two grand, there is a reason they are so much cheaper than private clinics offering superior technology. There is always a place for cheap products for those on a limited income of course, but there does need to be some honesty about the drawbacks too.

maybe because they are huge and buy so many they get a much better deal on price then a private clinic. that they also have almost no overhead as they use a small faction of the floor space in each store? they also use the huge accounting, payroll, inventory control, systems that Costco already has in place anyway? I don’t think the ratio of audiologist complaints or general HA happiness is anymore more or less for Costco or the big box stores. does anyone think Sams (wally world) is paying the same price for a HA that Joe Audi is paying at his private practice?

from Starkey’s web site…

With 21 facilities in more than 18 countries around the globe, Starkey Hearing Technologies is an industry leader in hearing instrument manufacturing. We create top quality diagnostic equipment, hearing protection products, wireless technology and unique hearing solutions for every environment.

so, look’s like Starkeys aids may or may not actually be made in the US, maybe imported and assembled? or just imported by an American company?

Don’t know if I believe it, but I was told that Resound makes, or at least assembles, aids for the USA market at its American Headquarters in Minnesota.

Wherever they are made, all of the systems have a few issues, one is the limit of the feedback manager, another is the internal resonance of the components like the receiver and the last is a dynamic change in the physical seal of the device.

However good your system is, ALL struggle with rapid changes to the physical seal and particular tones when they are near the edge of gain instability.

And why would an admiitted foreigner (ZCT) have a prejudice against foreign aids?? I expect my CIC aods were assembled in the US, but the components & electronic assembly may have been produced elsewhere.

Okay, let me clarify. The big box retailers are often selling low end to mid range (ie cheap) European aids at cheap prices. They are not selling EXPENSIVE European brands or focusing particularly on the top of the line and therefore most expensive of the models offered by the likes of Oticon, ReSound, Widex, Siemens, Phonak etc.

I was not intending to imply that the quality of the major European brands was of a lessor quality than American brands such as Starkey.

And as for the last sentence, please get over yourself. I can assure you that never in the entire time I’ve posted on this forum have I even considered anything relating to search engine robots or related considerations. If you really believe that about me, better put on the aluminum tin hat before the aliens probe your butt.

If I wanted to promote the brand that badly I write a clever little sig line that included S-----y two or three times. Multiply that by 1600 posts, and it would make quite the difference. But I don’t, and could care less about search engines. What exactly do you think the pay off would be for me anyway?

Finally, jingoistic? Let me break that down, you are suggesting that an Englishman from the UK which is part of Europe, and a British citizen, is fiercely and unreasonably patriotic towards America and scornful of Europe; his homeland? I was recently accused of not being patriotic enough merely because I suggested some pros and cons about America (and the poster looked only at the cons and took me to task for daring to utter them since I was but a lowly immigrant). But you are suggesting I hate everything European and flag wave for America. Sacrebleu complètement c’est fou.

That’s funny, I was just asking the same question.

The other week I was being raked over the coals for daring to suggest that America has both pros and cons. This week I am a Europe hating jingoist with secret plan to improve Starkey’s search engine rankings.