Adapting to more high frequency gain from Phonak Marvel M70-R

Hello , I am truly perplexed I have been wearing Hearing Aids for some time now … Currently wearing Phonak marvel 70 R … my audiologist and I have been trying to give me more high frequency but I cannot adapt I get sick , headache , vertigo and pain now matter how I try I end up going no we’re when it comes to hearing better … has anyone dealt with this , any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :blush:

Thank you , Shanie

I think it will be a challenge to even get 3k audible in your left ear with conventional amplification. Beyond that I think will require frequency lowering. What’s your word recognition scores like? If they’re 50% or less, I’d ask if a cochlear implant eval would be appropriate. Getting an eval doesn’t mean you’d get surgery, but it would be a decent way to learn what you can expect out of hearing aids and if surgery might help you.


could be worth seeing if your audiologist is utilizing the ‘soundrecover’ frequency shifting technology in the phonak software. Your high frequency hearing from 4kHz onwards is pretty minimal and likely wont benefit a great deal from amplification anyway - I can’t help but wonder whether your clinician is trying to enhance these particular frequencies by providing a lot of volume from the hearing aids, which will likely do little more than cause discomfort and recruitment. using sound recover may help to reduce the amount of uncomfortable volume at these high-frequncies, but still give you the possibility of getting access to sounds in this range of speech by shifting them to a frequency area where you hear better.


Big question…
Can you actually hear tones in the upper frequencies? You need to know the answer.
This will help you move forward about your hearing.

As mentioned, knowing your word and sentence understanding is very important.

A cochlear implant evaluation might be worth checking into. It would at least answer your hearing questions.

Good luck.


My approach to trying to get you more high frequency hearing would be incremental and systematic. I’d start at seeing if you could hear 3khz in left ear with additional gain. If not, or if intolerable, then I’d try frequency shifting to enable hearing 3khz. If that was successful, then I’d try getting 3.5 or 4 khz audible. I have no idea if any audiologists would approach it that way, but that’s how I’d approach it personally. This wouldn’t be quick (unless it was determined you couldn’t tolerate 3khz in left ear with or without frequency shifting), but I do think it would give you some answers.


Has anyone talked with you about cochlear dead spots? You may be trying to accomplish the impossible. Yes, frequency lowing in a good option.


Wow thank you for all the suggestions though I have been hearing aids and knowing about my loss . I have truly only in the last year accepted it and still be a normal person with a disability hearing . I am in Sales and Marketing and have struggled for as long as I can remember feeling inappropriate about myself due to others facial expressions and comments when I cannot hear behind myself . I realize they do nit begin to understand , I try my best to realize it is hard for others to recognize my hearing loss I look younger than I am and have long hair so it appears invisible to others . I will be contacting my audiologist today with the questions snd new audiogram I will post it when I receive it with my word recognition results :blush:.

Thank you each fir your help and time …

Excellent, thanks.
This will help us help you.

The question about cochlear dead spots is a really good question too.

Funny how we hard of hearing people get by. Then all of a sudden we can not hear anything.

Good luck and let us know.

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So my audiologist was off today and with the holiday weekend she did not reply to my email … the other day she used the remote setting to try to reset my aids back to original program so weird it worked for a bit but now the aids are again giving me a headache the vertigo even an ache is the back by my jaw … it seems that the Phonak remote will not save anything I try to create to lower the frequency … so upsetting I took out the aids today and had to go to Walmart sadly my phone dropped out of my purse while I was putting a mask on thankfully someone turned it in I did cry because I cannot even hear it drop … life is difficult at this loss especially when I get stressed out then I am totally without any hearing … I am hoping for a visit tomorrow so tiring yet I have to try at least to have some sense of hearing … you know it is funny when I had a pair of Oticon Delta aids this was my first pair of hearing aids I think they were a 4000 series I had the best experience , my old audiologist passed away that fitted me for them I wish I still had them I was never in pain with those aids and I could hear well they were cute too , pink small which mattered way back then ! At this point the hearing aid could be the size of a hat if the experience was satisfactory …

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It’s been said I would wear bananas over each ear if I could hear well.

It is tuff not being able to communicate.
Try to get your word/sentence understanding scores. It would help us help you.

You mentioned the Phonak Marvel 70R.
I suspect they are RIC aids being rechargeable aids. Do you know which receivers you have? We like the details so we can try to help.

It has a 1 M on it learning here still sorry feel embarrassed but thankful for your question

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Also they are Phonak M70R RIC
Thank you !

I like bananas will they help …

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The 1M receivers are questionably enough for your loss.
It all depends on if you can really hear tones in the upper frequencies.
Before I went the CI route I learned I really didn’t hear tones or sounds that were needed to get speech out of them. It was like popping and cracking, not tones. As it turned out I had dead zones that would not help me with speech. In those dead zones it did matter how much hearing aid gain was added, it didn’t help.

These are the details you need to know. It will help you understand the direction you need to go.

Good luck

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Shanie I have nothing much to add but my hope that things shift for you soon, clearly things are quite stressful and while easier to suggest than implement remember to breathe - you will find a way through this.

I’m thankful to the very knowledgeable and experienced forum Members who are supporting you. This is truly a wonderful resource and community.

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So I spoke with my audiologist today and thus far this is what I have been told (RECRUITMENT )
I’m not surprised I don’t know much about it other than I cannot process sound correctly in my head I sound is much louder than it actually is , so therefore this is where the pain is coming from when I say pain it is physical symptoms are headache/ Migraine , ear pain , jaw pain neck and shoulder tightness from the loudness it is a start I am hoping to learn more about this and perhaps treatment fit the Recruitment Issue .,

This was my audiologist email to me today …

Hi Shanie,
You definitely have recruitment and it’s not uncommon, but challenging nonetheless. It’s a process of trying and tweaking to find the best setting. When I run the real ear (the microphones in your ears) I’m setting to an objective target without consideration for your subjective perceptions. First we try the REM targets but it’s not “wrong” to fine tune them to a patients preference or what they can tolerate.
The Phonak soundrecover feature is one that we may need to adjust for the harshness. I’m printing out your old and new settings to compare where they differ and perhaps splitting the difference will be a good place to start.
I will get the audiogram out to you in the mail as well.

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This may well be what’s going on.
But, please answer the question…do you hear tones or is it crackles in the upper frequencies when testing?

I had three audiologist miss this with me. I figured it out self programming. For what it’s worth, the Costco fitter caught it. Your hearing loss is getting into the challenging area. Tuff to understand.
It’s all about word/sentence understanding. Do you hear tones or is it painful in the upper frequencies?

Hang in there and good luck.

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I don’t hear anything at a high frequency , a feeling of dead non existence… it is disappointing however I’m just sick of living with all the pain so at this point I have been unable to wear my aids at all I’m at the moment up with ice on my neck from the tension :wink:, yet I’m not going to go thru this anymore either I hear a little what I can or life and hearing will change for me at a new level but without pain . :blush:

@Raudrive found this as well. He wore less powerful receivers and didn’t amplify high frequencies. Instead he used Sound Recover 2 to it’s full advantage.

He now has CIs but I believe this is what he did before, when we wore Aids.

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The audiologist’s plan sounds decent. There is a lot of trial and error to fitting hearing aids.

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@Shanie: Hi, Shanie. I feel for you and share many of your frustrations. On the positive side, my Oticon Deltas were my first aids, and gave me wonderful service. They’re still in the back of my drawer. I with they hadn’t become obsolete so fast. :frowning:

The two subsequent pairs of Unitrons gave mixed results: my Moxi20s are still my go-to spares. The newer North Moxi Fit 800s were always - and still are - useless to me.

In March, my new audiologist moved me back to Oticon. I now wear More1s, and have gotten back “that old Delta feeling” :joy:.

As @cvkemp advises - persevere and you will eventually overcome your obstacles (providing you have a good, empathetic fitter).

Good luck!

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