About Um bongo (real name also Steve)


Reverse slope losses require more caution when it comes to fitting. The Naida is a perfectly good aid to use here. The problem is that your aid ought to be fitted with due notice of your appreciation of loudness growth in the lower frequencies. If the quietest sound you can hear at 250Hz is 80dB and your loudness growth (comfortable) tops out at 95dB, ALL the sounds that are commonly audible have to be fitted in over a range of just a few dB.

Unless you actually measure the delivery of this, the degree of venting, size/resonance of your canal means that your results can be really hit or miss, especially when manufacturer software explicitly attempts to deal with ‘occlusion’ in this range by actively lowering the gain.

There’s also the potential problem of the upward spread of masking reducing the quality of sounds heard at higher frequencies.


Steve. I would appreciate your help. I’m unhappy after 4 yrs with my Phonak Exelia my hearing has deteriorated and after visiting 3 audiologists’ I have been recommended 3 different solutions! As I have a Mypilot and Icom I’m thinking to stay with Phonak.
The 2 models recommended to me from Phonak are the Nadia S SuperPower plus Receiver and the Audeo S Smart Power x Receiver. I’m confused as the Phonak website shows identical hearing areas from 30 to 100 ish?. Obviously I could go to the two audiologists and try-out their recommendations – Is this the way forward? Thanks


Try both, see what sounds best to you. It’s a question of whether you regard your 6khz a dead spot or not. Both have sound recover - see whether you need the extra power of the Naida.


um bungo have you received a PM from me?

I am trying to figure out if my PM option is not working or being blocked somehow.

I have sent a return pm to doc audio before and they never received it even though my message said it was sent.

You don’t have to reply to the message, I just want to know if its working.


You don’t have to PM me to tell me you received it just reply here that you did or not.


corey - my original profile got deleted so you’ll need to find one of my recent posts and PM me using that profile. Don’t know why that happened but I’m guessing your email went to the old profile and therefore into cyber-nowhereness and not to a place where I can read it…


Sorry, I’ve been ignoring all the recent notifications as I assumed there was just spam coming through.

I have no idea why the ignore function isn’t working properly for you: speak to the Admin for clarification.

The following errors occurred with your submission:
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I’m dipping my toe in with a page for the business. Any consensus from other business people as to the marketing potential in this or similar businesses?


Um bongo,

My father has a severe to profound hearing loss (since a few months before) and we are looking for the first hearing aids. Please see my signature for the audiogram and details at http://www.hearingaidforums.com/showthread.php?t=13101. We tried Bernafon Xtreme 120, and it doesn’t work; tried Kirkand without super power, and it doesn’t work well; tried Widex Clear 440 on one ear, and my father can understand 60%-80%; tried Oticon SUMO briefly, not as good as Widex Clear; never got a chance to try Phonak Naida UP. Could you please advice on what hearing aids may work the best or how should we proceed?

Thanks a lot for your help!


It may seem obvious, but go with what works. I can’t tell you if the Naida UP will be ‘better’ or not as I really don’t know how your father likes to hear. 60 to 80% is enough recognition to follow speech given the inbuilt redundancy. This may well improve with long term familiarity too.

Which aids does your father prefer? His buy-in to the process is far more important than price, as any money spent on aids that don’t work for him is 100% wasted.


We finally purchased Kirkland Signature premium BTE with RITE (75 dB) at Costco. It is Rexton Onyx. There is only a little bit residual amplification for right ear, as the max fit range is 105dB for low frequencies, but it is good enough for now and there may be more powerful receiver in the future. We also consider the more powerful Rexton Bridge (slim tube), but the specialist told us that Kirkland is newer and the sound may be clearer. Word recognition is an issue here, so we picked Kirkland.


agreed squared

thank you, pros!



I bought one of these last month.

Celtic Hearing is now fully Med-Rxed up at in the office and on the road.



Proprietary Body Area Network exchange standard at X GigaHz, but you don’t actually need to see inside the black-box to make the features work for you. “”

What I am trying to figure out is how the Resound Unite Mini Microphone fits into the different systems. I am attempting to understand what is available from the different companies and models. (Recently I was asking about fm for my cookie-bite hearing.) Is their proprietary exchange an alternative to fm? Is there a telecoil involved? If so, where is the telecoil? Just in the hearing aid? As you can see I am really at the basic level. I use a basic cell phone (not I-phone or android), an i-Pod shuffle and classic, and so-so computer skills. I am slowly becoming accustomed to the terminology, such as streaming, but can easily misunderstand. I tried to access the listed pdf information on the Resound site to see whether the Verso has a telecoil, but the download just would not complete each time I tried. I have no trouble on the Phonak or Widex sites.

When I go for an adjustment of my current BTE I want to begin exploring options for a new higher-end BTE or RIC purchase in a year or so. I want to use my audiologist’s time efficiently. It is difficult to ask specific questions without a basic understanding. I do have copies of the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Consumer’s Guide to Hearing Aids. They have charts which list many of the features for the various models. Unfortunately it doesn’t include a column for telecoil!

Although I should have chosen a model with a volume control I am glad that I didn’t sink a lot of money into a high-end BTE 2 years ago. So many advances have been made in the last 2 years and I have managed O.K. With the new advances I will be much better prepared as my hearing eventually worsens. I might be starting to lose a little at the 8 k frequency. I will have a better idea after my audiogram in 3 weeks. If so, more bands will definitely be beneficial if my audiogram begins to look like a roller coaster!

Thank you for your contributions to our understanding of what is available and how it can best help each one of us. Your time is appreciated.


Or is it also incorporated in the Unite Microphone?

My questions to you were lost in my long post. Would you please elaborate. Thank you!

I sure with I could access the Resound pdfs. I get a pdf screen but no pictures or words.:frowning:


resound uses 2.4 Ghz transmission.

like a cordless phone.



Like the man says, they share part of the 2.4ghz spectrum like certain phones. However they still need the intermediary device to drive the Bluetooth connection as there are a couple of major limits in respect of the power required and the space of the Bluetooth portion.

Rather than trying to analyse this from the paperwork, when you need to get the aids, ask the audiologist to see the Resound, Widex and other systems if you need to. Over-thinking it at the research stage will leave you none the wiser, but if you can tie a product to a performance level, you’ll start to feel better.

The other thing to mention is that not all accessories are ergonomically as good or as well built - you’ll never pull that from the spec sheets.


Thank you for your response. Two more questions… Since the Resound Unite Mini Mic works similar to a cordless phone, would it be less susceptible to fluorescent light and other equipment interference? Are there any other brand systems that use the same technology (no neckloop or device hanging from your neck)?

When I use the Motiva fm system in the classroom with an earbud, I usually have to remove the earbud when walking across the room to avoid unpleasant loud static when near certain fluorescent lights and the smartboard.


None of these systems use FM, they are all TDMA technologies with error checking and interference controls. Also, being a digital signal, you’d either get a full reproduction or the signal would break down completely.

As it stands Widex, Starkey, Siemens and Resound all use cordless systems. If you have a look at past threads, you’ll have a better idea of the performance of the separate systems. I’ve considered blogging up a comparison, but I don’t really see all the ranges: especially the Siemens product.


Thank you! The comment about interference and the digital signal was helpful. A comparison of the cordless systems would be informative even if the ranges were limited. We glean information where we can… It all contributes to the big picture and our knowledge base. It’s a process. We have to start some place!


Here’s the actual technical gobbledygook if it helps : borrowed from ’ the hearing aid blog’

About a decade ago, mobile phones started to incorporate IEEE 802.15.4 “Bluetooth” wireless Personal Area Network (PAN) connectivity both for synching to a user’s desktop PC, and for connecting to the ubiquitous headset (the ones that look like the wearer has a cockroach on their ear). You’ll notice that we spell out “IEEE 802.15.4″ instead of using the more generic “Bluetooth” for two distinct reasons:
• To emphasize that, in general, the IEEE 802.15 family is similar to TCP/IP in general, and moreso to IEEE 802.11 “WiFi” in that it is a two-way protocol, i.e. that the transmitting station sends a packet of data along with error correcting codes and a checksum, and then the receiving station decodes the packet, verifies and corrects what errors it can, and then transmit back an ACK(nowledgement) signal. If the sending station does not receive an ACK, then it will send the packet again. This presents issues with power consumption and up to 150 mSec latency, which will be discussed below;
• To separate out the commonly used 802.15.4 Personal Area Network (PAN) standard that we all know from the still-evolving 802.15.6 Body Area Network (BAN) standard that we believe Apple may be implementing in iOS 6.
Let’s look at how “Bluetooth” is currently implemented with hearing aids for connectivity, and the significant drawbacks.
First and foremost, we need to understand that any digital reception in a hearing aid is going to consume extra power — And lots of it, due to the decoding operation. Add to this the 802.15.4 overhead of transmitting ACK signalling, even occasionally in A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Protocol), and it makes for a real issue. Austin-based Audiotoniq has mostly sidestepped this with their hearing aids by using a Li-ION cell; but in fact their hearing aid wireless communications protocol is only really for phone use and not continuous streaming (though they have a clever workaround for it).
Most every other manufacturer uses a “Bluetooth streamer,” which acts as a “relay station” communicating via 802.15.4 to the phone or other Bluetooth -equipped device, and then using a second transmitter to broadcast a proprietary Hearing Instrument Body Area Network (HI-BAN) signal to the hearing aids. There are three basic ways this is accomplished, and it’s important to understand the distinction, as it is key in understanding what we speculate Apple will be doing:
• Widex and Phonak use a 28 meter (10.6 mHz) “near field” digital signal.² Phonak and Widex also use 10.6 mHz for ear-to-ear communication between the instruments for binaural coordination of directional microphone beam steering, compression to maintain binaural localization, and also program shift. Widex also uses it for binaural “Phone Plus” operation and Phonak for CROS and BiCROS communications; and both manufacturers also use it for wireless programming;
• Starkey uses a 33 cm (900 mHz) UHF digital signal for streaming and ear-to-ear communications; however they also have direct-to-instrument broadcasting through their SurfLink Media transmitter, i.e. unlike the Widex TV-Dex media transmitter, no additional relay is used. However, Starkey also just released their SurfLink Mobile device, which can be used as a Bluetooth relay, and also as a remote mic up to 20 feet away — But it’s on backorder until at least fall 2012 due to unanticipated demand;
• GN ReSound uses a variation of a 2.4 gHz 802.15.4 signal — An “unofficial” 802.15.6 HI-BAN — for direct, low (under 10 mSec) latency, direct-to-instrument broadcasting from various Unite accessories to their Alera series hearing aids, as well as for remote control and wireless programming (with inter-ear coordination available 4Q2012). It is this style of direct-to-hearing aid broadcasting that we believe Apple will be implementing in software in iOS 6, by essentially “hacking” the 802.15.4 Bluetooth stack and turning it into a de facto 802.15.6 HI-BAN stack for low latency broadcasting.³