About Um bongo (real name also Steve)


Hi again, Steve!

I was wondering if there is a way to save each individual setting on the Naida software (under separate files, perhaps?) The reason is that I note down my responses to each setting the audiologist has made, and if i like an earlier setting more I tell him to go back to setting number 1.

Yesterday the audiologist told me that he doesn’t have past settings saved and that he goes back to previous settings from his memory. He also said there is no way to print it out on a sheet of paper, as it is too complex.

Is there a way around this?


Does he use Noah? I’m not sure if the standalone module does back-ups (as I don’t use it), but keeping accurate records should be part of his job. In any case you can get a print out of all the fitting info under the print options.

He really ought to be able to access the previous session data otherwise you’ll just end up going in circles. Using his memory isn’t really a reliable tool once you get into anything other than basic settings - even then it ought to be recorded.



He uses the Phonak Naida software. Does that have a similar print option to the Noah?


The print option is within the module whether it’s on IpfG or the newer Target software, depending on which Naida you have.

Noah is just the database that sits behind the program modules to hold all the patient records.


Hi Steve =D
I managed to get all the settings in a printable version; thanks for the help with that!

I have a couple of things to ask you:

(i) Currently I find things loud in my left ear. The hearing aid was set according to the audiogram, and then reduced some more. I have taken multiple audiograms over the past few weeks-all of them show around the same loss in my left ear, but when the hearing aid is set for that ear, it sounds way too loud. Do you know of a way to get past this?

(ii) I was having some problems with speech clarity. My audiologist recommended that he increase the gain in the 3.5Hz for my right ear (since I rely on my right ear for speech). After he increased it, the other sounds are sounding REALLY loud-I have a splitting headache. The things I find loud are: washing of cutlery, running water, cd cover being put down on the desk. (strangely, most of the increase in loudness seems to come from my left side although no changes have been made in that ear) The speech however, is clearer. Is there a way to amplify only the speech and not the background noise?

(iii) I was looking through the settings on the printable version. I would like to understand what the following symbols mean and how changing them affects my hearing.(they appear in the box that list numbers under each frequency) The symbols are: TK, G40, G60, G80, MPO, CR

Would it help if I mailed you my audiograms and settings as an attachment? I can’t attach documents to posts on this forum.

I really appreciate your help on this-all the recommendations you’ve made were wonderful!


i, Acclimatisation: can be difficult with powerful aids, you’d be best to turn down the G80 and MPO levels to reduce the top end power of the aid while maintaining the gain for the lower levels of speech and quiet sounds.

ii, Increasing just the 3.5 Khz band is too arbitrary and may introduce distortion than speech. If improved speech is needed try increasing the G60 handles between 1khz and 4khz: this ought to help. Small steps are needed too. Even reducing the overall gain while retaining this area may prove more beneficial.

iii, TK - Threshhold kneepiont - the point at which compression kicks in.
G40 - The gain applied to 40dB input (quiet) sounds
G60 - The gain applied to 60dB input (moderate speech) sounds
G80 - The gain applied to 80dB input (loud) sounds
MPO - Maximum power output - The ceiling output of the aid.
CR - Compression ratio - the proportion of gain applied above the TK level above - the closer to 1, the more linear the aid.

THere’s not a lot of point in sending me the settings as I can’t apply them blindly any better than the automatic target gain: however if you try setting the global compression down to 0% and work back from there, it may sound better.


Hi Steve,

I currently am using widex clear 440’s with open domes and like them. I have an old widex CIC for my right ear as a backup if I have a breakdown, and I am thinking of getting a backup for my left ear as I need to use my aids to work. I don’t want to spend a fortune for another widex aid as a backup that will be used only for emergencies. Given my audiogram and the fact that I work in a noisy environment and need to clearly hear people talking, will one of the self programming aids from Hearsource or America Hears be adequate or will the quality be so far below the clears that it will be a waste of money and really not usable, or do you have another alternative?( by the way I tried Phonak smart 9’s and agil pros and really could not use either of those very successfully in my work environment and during my trials had to eventually use my old widex in one ear to really hear well enough, although the pros were not too bad) Thanks

L -48—38----40----42----50----60-----65
R -45—45----50----45----50----47-----62


Unfortunately you’re unlikely to find an aid that sounds like a Widex from the other manufacturers. It’s not a question of quality as AH and the other retailers on-line can provide similar quality instruments, it’s a question of the way that the aid sounds: which they will struggle to emulate, even the big boys can’t manage it.

The good news is you might be able to do just this, without paying full whack. Coselgi, the italian manufacturer, has just launched a range of products using the Inteo/Aikia/Flash platform at it’s core. If you can get a source of supply where you are you might get exactly what you need without paying the Widex premium .


Hi Steve,

Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I tried some of the changes you suggested (increase G60 handles between 1 and 4 KHz, turning global compression down).

I would like to understand more about how changing the global compression component affect the way things sound. I noticed that things sounded louder, yet clearer. Right now its turned down to 90% global compression.

If I turn it all the way down, and things are way too loud, will adjusting the gain be an appropriate solution?


The global compression sets how much the aid squeezes down the sound into your residual hearing range. If you set it to a fully linear setting, it amplifies all the sounds on a 1:1 basis, thereby making the loudest sounds way too loud. If you edge it down a bit the response becomes less linear as it compresses or applies less gain to the louder sounds and more gain to the quieter ones.

It’s the same technique that TV advertising uses to increase the audibility of quieter sounds whilst keeping the speech level under the legal limits.

The downside is that more compression will sound more distorted to some people, even though there’s a claim that it doesn’t affect the overall intelligibility of speech. It may contribute to greater auditory fatigue.

Set the compression where it sounds OK for you, and drop the MPO limiter a bit to keep the loudness in check. Then you can experiment with slightly squeezing the compression over time to see if your speech comprehension improves. If you have a conductive/mixed loss, leave the aid in a more linear set-up.


Hey Steve,
I have switched between audiologists ; I am currently in another city as there is a better audi here(whom I had purchased from earlier). I plan to buy the Naida VSP.
I want to check two things with you:

  1. My previous fitting formula was, “Adaptive Phonak Digital”. This audi just changed it to the DSL version 5 formula and things sound less natural than before. Do you have any recommendations on the type of fitting formula to use?
  2. My audi has set all the programmes like Speech in Noise etc. to manual mode. However she told me that even if these programmes are set to be manual, the hearing aid still switches between programmes according to the surroundings. Is this true? If so, is there any way I can control the aid switching between programmes?

Thanks for all the wonderful help :slight_smile: Sanaya


Hello again,

1, DSL tends to give a higher pitched response which some find too harsh: it’s used extensively with kids as it offers about the best improvement of what we call ‘fricatives’: sharp sounds like ‘T’ ‘C’. Whether it’s right for you depends on your experience and comfort with it - nobody else can really tell: though real ear measurement may help. The A-D Phonak one is what we normally use unless there is a problem.

2, Your automatic (Soundflow) program # 1 will shift by situation to various ‘destinations’ - combinations of the features/compression that suit a particular sound scene; though the Audiologist can set the sensitivity and speed of the transition. The others should not unless they’ve duplicated the Soundflow program. However the other programs will still use compression to adjust for louder and softer sounds plus whatever features (wind/noise/shock managers) are selected - so there will still be a degree of automatic function, but without the wholesale shift to a different destination.


Hi Steve,

Thanks a lot for the detailed input.

I have one more thing to ask you-regarding the microphone settings, which one would you recommend? I am currently on the Real Ear setting.


Hi Steve,

I am currently in the process of buying the Naida V SP hearing aid.

I have one thing to check with you-is it true that the first two digits on the serial number of the Naida aid reflect the last two digits of the year it is manufactured in? For example, a hearing aid manufactured in 2011 has a serial number that starts with “11”.

The reason I ask is that both the pieces that were ordered for me starts with the number “10”, yet the sticker on the box says that it was manufactured in July 2011.


Sorry, didn’t see this until now.

The date coding of BTE reflects the year of manufacture into stock, which isn’t necessarily the date of sale. The same happens with newly registered cars here - if you have the ‘latest’ model delivered all the bits in the parts bin will have been dated from several months before.

ITE is different due to the custom manufacture - your aid will have been made that week as the shell coding is applied on the fulfilment of the order at the end of the manufacturing process.


I am grateful that hearing professionals are making time to post here on this forum.

I has thought me a lot :slight_smile:



Sometimes we get so caught up in helping and warning others that we neglect to appreciate the dedicated professionals here. I will not name them, because I would be sure to forget some.


I have recently discovered I am in need of hearing aides, and was astounded at the costs!! I have now begun researching what to reasonably expect to pay for either the Phonak Audeo S V (mid-grade), or the Phonak Audeo S IX (top of the line). Please share your input as to what I am ‘looking at’ in terms of costs for either of these. I want to make sure the Dr. I’ve gone to isn’t ‘taking me for a ride’. THanks!:confused:


You might want to post this in the general Q+A section of the forum, with some idea of where you are…

In my part of the UK the price for a pair of these aids will be from around £2500 for the V and up to £4000 for the IX depending on what kind of deal you want. This won’t necessarily translate to US pricing or local variation in your area.


Hi, I have a moderate to severe backward slope lose. I am trying out phonack Nadia s. Can you advise if there is anything more suited to my type of lose? Also what are your thoughts on Nadia s?